I just saw the fotogallary of the Mille's and Brian D. Norrie
Calgary, Alberta, Canada wrote that he owns a Mille S2 number 18. I wonder how you can identify the production number of this type of bike. My bike has framenumber ZDM1000S2100059DGM514290M.
G'day Peter and Ruud,
Peter, you are correct about the number for that bike. The S2 Mille production used an identical frame as the MHR Mille production but with a short run of ony 171 bikes from memory. Each frame of the S2 Mille run was marked with ZDM1000 S2 to distinguish from the R of the MHR run.
So the S2 Mille is a VERY small production run which makes them special.
Now, the fun part!!!
I own an S2 Mille (as well as an MHR Mille) but its numbers are different.
Brian had 2 S2 Milles but one was what we call a "FrankenDuc" having a frame number from the MHR Mille run.
Some of us here in Oz own S2 Milles of both types and we have a list of known examples. They are not MHR Milles converted to S2 but are S2 in their own right. I know because I have a "FrankenDuc". Only about 5 have been identified by us so far.
AND, just to confuse things, we have found 2 types of "FrankenDucs".
I am away from home so can't access my files to get contacts of the other owners or the exact details but it goes something like this.
There are S2 Mille with MHR numbers which were built like that at the factory plus some here in Oz that were assembled (we believe) from parts from the factory and plated as S2 Mille with an Italspares plate on the frame. Don't quote me as I am going from memory on this.
So short and sweet, you have an original S2 Mille number 59 from the short production run (finished when Cagiva flexed its muscles). It is rare considering only 171 were made "officially" but remember there lurks somewhere out there in the darkness, the dreaded and even rarer "FrankenDuc"! :-) :-)
Email me direct if you want more info or help.
RAD
G'day Peter,
Sorry for the delay in replying as I work away a lot.
The FrankenDuc is what we call an S2 Mille that is a genuine S2 Mille as far as cosmetics/registration goes but has an MHR numbered frame.
The 171 ZDM1000S2 numbered frames of the genuine batch are identical in every respect to the MHR frames which carried a ZDM1000R prefix. The engines came from the same production run but are numbered later in the sequence (from around the 700 mark from memory) for the S2 run.
These 1000R MHR-framed S2 Milles are the FrankenDucs ie. the evil creations of the genuine S2s just like Frankenstein was an evil creation of a human, catch my drift?
Strangely, there is another identical FrankenDuc living only 2 streets away from me here in North Queensland and is one of the five known.
There are other different FrankenDucs with slightly different beginnings that exist also but here in Australia only.
Hope this explains things.
If you want to mail me direct, feel free.
Regards,
RAD
G'day Peter,
In one word, YES!
They are very few and far between but are S2 Milles, built as such, not just tarted up from an MHRMille someone had.
Unfortunately, the S2 Mille is sought after for its engine and bits for specials etc. as people don't like the stying etc. and see it as a donor bike only so is a dying species.
Sorry again for the big delay in replying.
Regards
RAD
Hello Radecal and Peter,
Thanks for the answers I think we are all dying species but until then I don't have the intention to chop my bike and leave it the way it is. Actually I don't dislike the looks, just think its a pretty thing with exposed and round cases. On a trip from Haarlem to Bologna for a factory-visit with my wife as passenger she told me that life was not a problem at all on the buddy-seat cornering along throug the Alpes and that was an other reason why I choose for the Mille S2.
There is one other thing that is strange about my bike. Both the carb's are left-bored for the adjustment screws (S) Sinister=Left.
And the choke-lever is on the carburettor itself and not with a bowden-cable. Are the other S2's fitted in the same way??
Best regards,
Ruud
If anyone is still following this thread, to which I have found very interesting, maybe someone can throw some light on my 900MHR issue, to which I am now really confused.
Frame number DM900R1 * 906382 * DGM51147OM
I was told when I bought this from new many years ago, 1984, that this was an S2 engine (I assume S2 means E. Starter!!!!). I take it that this bike has an MHR frame. Was there any such animal as a S2 frame for the 900 ?
Doesn’t much really matter if there isn’t an answer, the main thing is that I still enjoy riding it and having fun.
Peter,
It seems to me that your observation about the HdeB-bike must be right because at the time I became interested in buying a mille (March 1987) there still was a new one in Holland available (Joop Budgen in Giessenburg aranged it for me) It must have been a so-called 'Shop-Daughter' the one nobody wanted to buy . If you are interested in the article about the end of the beavelheads "Aus und vorbei: Ducati mit Konigswelle" I could send you a copy of it. That article made me restless .
And one thing about the carbs: both bored 'sinistre' is an advantage because the access is possible with the fairing left in its position! Next time I see an Mille S2 I will look for differences .
Ruud
Thanks for the info, I'll look that reference book up.
As for anything to do with Bevel's in the South West, I'm quite sure that anything that was around has now dried up, or turned into the later style Ducati franchise. I'll keep my ear to the ground, maybe I'll find something for your trip next year. Take a look at this url
All I can suggest is, don't drink too much of that Somerset Cider, as you will definitely have problems finding any shop the next day!!!
Isn't it amazing that up to about 10 years ago the UK used to be a wealth of Bevel parts (twins and singles). Whats it like in the Netherlands these days?
Just seen your reply, as I’m also travelling at the moment, but sadly business not pleasure.
I’m glad that you had a good time, as Devon and Somerset at this time of year can be a very nice place.
As for the book that you mentioned, I’m finding great difficulty in locating it, but I’m still trying.
Please tell me, what was it that Steve Wynne did to give such lasting results, even though I’ve only ever adjusted mine once, and that was quite a few years ago now.
Hi Peter
Now you come to mention it, the additives that I’ve also been using for lead free has also helped.
As I’m currently rebuilding my Desmo 250 I can’t wait to see what effect this is also going to have, as I’m not going to replace the valve seats. I don't know if anyone else has anything else to add to this, but it could be quite interesting
I have looked at & worked on some Japanese import late MHR's lately which are all different & with weird bits fitted.
All are low mile bikes but all are different & show no signs of engines removed etc.
One of them is a MHR900 dry clutch (late style frame) with a square case (wet clutch) engine, spin on filter & sight glass in the cases but with a kick start & no electric start (& no provision or indication it was ever fitted).
The other is identical to the above but it has a std. kick start only 900 square case motor same as fitted to '82 SS.
The last is a Mille framed bike that is in very original condition with around 3,000km from new but it has a 900SD/S2 style engine but stamped with ZD1000 on the cases. This bike is showing no signs of ever being tampered with at all.
I think alot of oddball stuff left the factory around this time & these Jap. bikes seem to be the oddest???
you can identify the production number of this type of bike. My bike has framenumber ZDM1000S2100059DGM514290M. 
I think we are all dying species but until then I don't have the intention to chop my bike and leave it the way it is. Actually I don't dislike the looks, just think its a pretty thing with exposed and round cases. On a trip from Haarlem to Bologna for a factory-visit with my wife as passenger she told me that life was not a problem at all on the buddy-seat cornering along throug the Alpes and that was an other reason why I choose for the Mille S2. 
.
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