Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

If you need technical information or help with your roundcase Ducati 750 engine - post your FAQs, comments & questions here.
Post Reply
froggie
Mariana
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:42 am

Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by froggie »

I have been looking for a side stand for my 1971 GT.
Side stands for later 750 GTs are already difficult to source and very expensive, but I now understand and believe that for a sandcast model it is an unobtainium item :cry: .

The spare parts catalog of the 750 GT lists indeed two references for the side stand, depending if it is for sand cast or die cast models, 0795.12.500 and 0595.12.503 respectively:
nos12.jpg
There is only one drawing for the side stand, but obviously the item should not have the same geometry on the "rear", where it is supposed to be bolted on the LH crankcase, because the sand cast and die cast crankcases are different.
nos11.jpg
On the sandcast crankcase, the bolt to attach the side stand is further back and down compared to where it is on the die cast crankcase (see blue arrows, sand cast on the left, die cast on the right):
sidestand bolting.jpg
The side stand was not an item supplied with the early sandcast 750 GTs. It was however introduced on a few ones, apparently sold in the USA as indicated in the spare parts catalog.
There was a road test of a USA model 750 GT in Cycle World of 1972 where the side stand is visible:
https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article ... ducati-750
That specific 750 GT is also pictured and mentioned by Ian Falloon in his Ducati 750 Bible, page 46, as being a sandcast model. Unfortunately the pictures do not allow seeing the side stand bolting on the crankcase.

Did anybody ever see one and, if so, was the rear shape "special" for bolting on the crankcase?
wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 713
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by wdietz186 »

Looking at the cases it wouldn't seem to be rocket science to modify a later stand with an extension under the rear facing bracket.It would probably have to be thin to avoid interference with the vert. cyl. exhaust pipe. Was maybe a single cylinder. stand adapted to work? I've only ever seen one sandcast and really didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the case differences. I did work on an e-start 750 onceI though!
froggie
Mariana
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:42 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by froggie »

Thank you for your feedback.

The part of the "standard" side stand that bolts on the frame and on the crankcase is a forged blade of metal with a strong annular bracket welded on its rear to insert the special attachment bolt to the crankcase:
Nos2.jpg
On a die cast bike, the metal blade remains close to the crankcase side:
1974_ducati_750gt_160341392374e5872f690left_side_engine-scaled.jpg
When you look at the side of a sand cast crankcase, you can see that the bolting hole to attach the bracket is substantially recessed compared to a die cast crankcase (not withstanding the different, further back and down, position of the bolting hole) :
IMG_20240227_104010 mod1.jpg
At least for me, it doesn't seem that straightforward to modify a" standard" side stand to fit a sand cast crankcase :? .
You would have to weld a solid extension, with a shape and dimensions that have to be carefully designed to fit exactly.

And the side stands of single cylinder bikes also look very different...
Ianhood
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:48 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by Ianhood »

Couldn't you follow the same approach as used on the squarecase models which have a similarly recessed hole at the back of the stand and use a spacer (28 on the diagram in this link - https://www.ducaticlassics.com/parts/86 ... -rear-brak). That would bring the mount point out and then you would just have to to extend the rear of the stand.

Ian
Ianhood
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:48 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by Ianhood »

...or, does this work (although not in stock at the moment) - https://www.mdinaitalia.co.uk/side-stan ... gtsss.html
froggie
Mariana
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:42 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by froggie »

Thank you for the comments, Ian.
Although speculative, both suggestions look interesting.

That spacer (or a possibly larger one) may allow compensate the recess depth.
I note that it is apparently a true spacer, not a kind of shim to widen and adjust the bolt diameter within the hole as it is for the special fixing bolt of the side stand, identified as (also) part 28 in the diagram of this link for the roundcase : https://www.ducaticlassics.com/parts/75 ... lutch-side).

The adaptable side stand sold by MdinaItalia is also goo to know.
But with only two attachment bolts, looks to me more fragile (not withstanding unknown true adaptability on sand cast models).

All in all, I would hazard that the least unsafe approach would be to work out a "standard" side stand, as suggested by wdietz, requiring to "unweld" the current annular bracket (looks to me possibly brazed?), deform the blade as necessary vertically to lower the attachment point, and weld a new deeper annular bracket at the ad-hoc place to compensate for the recess.
Hoping that the rigidity of the side stand is not compromised and the bolt/crankcase assembly solid enough; the stresses are quite high there...
An interesting metallurgical task!
wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 713
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by wdietz186 »

The 750 sidestand was/is nothing to write home about anyway, it stands the bike too vertically and is not at all stable. I took mine off 40yrs. ago! It rolls up on the centerstand so easily, especially with SS length shocks on it [to keep the pipes from grounding so easily]
froggie
Mariana
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:42 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by froggie »

Funny, the side stands of more modern Ducs are often too short! making the bikes leaning too much and fall on the same side whenever the ground is not really flat or stable.
I am interested by a side stand because I am not very tall nor strong (I am now 72y. old) and I view the side stand as a practical means to stand off my 750 GT without efforts.
Thank you for this info, good to know and take into account...
wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 713
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by wdietz186 »

The stands Froggie mentions are the way to go, I've seen them in the flesh and they work well. Much more stable than the stock setup being located at the middle of the motorcycle. I can relate to being 72 and using the centerstand, my Ducati's are easy but I have a '95 Hinckley Triumph that could cause a hernia!
froggie
Mariana
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:42 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by froggie »

You mean the stands mentioned by Ianhood: https://www.mdinaitalia.co.uk/side-stan ... gtsss.html ?
wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 713
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by wdietz186 »

Yes!
froggie
Mariana
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:42 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by froggie »

I have explored the conversion kit suggested by Ian.
The stance it provides seems to be more inclined and safer than what provides the stock side stand.

Here under the conversion kit fitted on a MHR:
ducati-bevel-twin-sidestand.-2643-dv-p.jpg
In comparison, the bike on its stock stand looks nearly vertical, as warned by wdietz (well spotted!).
Here under the picture in Cycle World, relating to a sandcast bike btw, scary:
Cycle world 1972.jpg
froggie
Mariana
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:42 am

Re: Side stand for 750 GT sandcast

Post by froggie »

From the manufacturer of the conversion kit, "this stand is not fitted in the original position on the front frame down tube. It is made to fit on the lower rear engine mount and the centre stand pivot bolt."
IMG_E1039.jpg
When looking at the underbody of my bike, I am wondering how that would be fitted exactly, I presume that the long pin may replace the two pivot bolts holding the centre stand, but not sure.
Also I do not see where, on the engine, would be bolted the plate of the side stand.
IMG_20240227_103959.jpg
But I presume that it will become obvious under closer inspection.
What is most interesting in this kit is that it does not bolt on the area of the crankcase that is different on a sandcast block compared to a die cast block.
It means that there would be no adaptation required for the side stand, an excellent point! :-D
Also the attachment points on the crankcase (the lower rear engine mount) may be stronger than the bolt hole on the left side of the crankcase.
And hopefully the centre stand can be retained together with the side stand...

So a fruitful discussion here with helpful contributions, thank you!
Post Reply

Return to “Roundcase Engines > 750 GT, 750 Sport & 750 Super Sport”