Help with Ducati electronic ignition wiring (WC single)

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antero
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Finland

Help with Ducati electronic ignition wiring (WC single)

Post by antero »

Hi!

I have -72 450 Scrambler (1st serie) and I would like to get rid of the contact breaker points. I have Ducati pick-up and coil, but the problem is wiring:

In the 2nd serie wiring diagram I found (http://www.desmo-ducati.de/860E.htm second from the top) there seems to be five wires coming from the flywheel; in addition to those three (red-yellow-yellow) going to the regulator, there is white going to the coil and green to the pick-up.
As far as I understand, these extra wires are coming from the fifth coil to provide current for the pick-up trigger.

Again in the same page there is diagram for "Motoplat" which shows different wiring.

Does anyone have experience on correct installation with 1st serie flywheel, or do I have to change it?

Thanks,

Antero
450 Scrambler -72
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Craig in France
Paso 750
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:58 pm
Location: Montpellier, France

Ignition wiring for electronic ignition on a 450 SCR

Post by Craig in France »

Hi Antero

I have a '72 450 SCR with the Ducati Elettronica ignition. The wiring is as you describe.

I think you will need to get a new stator plate with the correct coil set-up ... If you look at the parts book, the plate is shown as a part that is specific to the electronic ignition models - number 0616.46 413.

Phil at Road and Race may be able to supply one - but it won't be cheap.

Ciao

Craig in UK
antero
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Finland

Post by antero »

Ciao Craig!

Thank you for the advice, I'm afraid you are right.
Should have checked the stator before buying these parts...

I guess I try to manage with a new set of points and condencer and start looking for used 5-coil stator. The only trick that comes to mind is to split the wires coming from the stator and direct the current to the pick-up through some kind of converter. Don't know if its possible.

About your bike, how is the ignition working? Would you prefer the electronic or the points?

Saluti,

Antero
450 Scrambler -72
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Craig in France
Paso 750
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:58 pm
Location: Montpellier, France

Ignition for widecase single

Post by Craig in France »

Hi Antero

The Ducati Elettronica ignition system isn't very reliable ... I've had a coil fail, a pick-up fail and a stator plate fail, all at different times! But it is all 30 years old - and it was relatively unproven technology when new.

If you're serious about a reliable system, I suggest you need to fit a modern 12 volt electronic system. I understand that this is what most of the people who go on the Moto Giro do, even people with points systems.

Here in UK, the preferred system is made by Boyer Bransden. Here is a possible source http://www.tga.co.uk/spares/shared/boyer.htm.

Or you could try sending an e-mail to Phil at Road and Race ..

Ciao

Craig in UK
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Eldert
Parallel Twin
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:08 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Ignition for widecase single

Post by Eldert »

this link should work

Cheers Eldert
esa
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:36 pm
Location: Finland

Post by esa »

Ask SPL-elektroniikka, Espoo, http://www.tv-korjaus.fi/.
They sell Newtronic igniton systems (Piranha).

Esa,
Itä-suomesta.....
Esa
antero
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Ignition for widecase single

Post by antero »

Terve Esa!

Thanks for the links.

Meanwhile I have been trying to get the timing right with new points but somehow it seems impossible: if I set the points cap to correct 0.30-0.40, I just cannot get the advance right.

To get the advance to 0 degrees with still engine (isn't it 0 with 450 Scrambler?) I have to reduce the points cap to minimum.
Then I get the engine running poorly for a minute untill it stops again. And would not start until I check the ignition again.

I'm trying to follow the famous Liebolds article http://www.liebold.com/timing/timing.htm

... and my right foot is killing me...
450 Scrambler -72
antero
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Ignition for widecase single

Post by antero »

Okay,

previous owner had installed ATU the opposite it should be, no wonder I couldn't get the timing right!

Now it works with points, but I still try to get rid of them. Newtronic/Piranha might be good solution.

Thanks for all!

Antero
450 Scrambler -72
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