New ignition system: need advice!

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andybaggies
Mariana
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by andybaggies »

currently have the #5 curve chosen but only because I had read somewhere that someone liked this setting after trying several others.
Well first off I got it completely wrong my previous post - curve #7 has max advance at 28 degrees and curve #5 is the one with 34 degrees max advance i.e. 2 degrees higher than standard. And yes Rick, I've also read the same somewhere on the web, no doubt the same post.

I reckon I'll start with the default curve 2 and adjust from there depending how it drives. And as you say mounting the box in the space that was taken up by the rear airbox certainly provides ease of access.
the old tab washer has an indent on the ID that locks/aligns it with the key slot but it can't do this with the Sachse wheel guide sleeve
I managed to use the tab washer by gentle filing of the tab.
I'm not sure I understand your generator light question but I will try to answer
As you surmised the Darmah used the GEN light to indicate the running voltage and will turn on below ~12v & above ~15v thereby giving an indication of the state of charging system. This functionality as standard is provided by a horrid voltmeter that takes up yet more space (and doesn't always work) but can be provided by some reg/recs. I've fitted a small LED voltmeter that does the same on my daily driver, a Cagiva V Raptor natch, with the added advantage of flashing when the bike is not running giving the impression of an alarm. I may see if I can squeeze one of these into the original GEN lamp.
YEAH! Test riding and relearning how to ride a bike tomorrow.....
Enjoy & keep it upright :vroom:

Andy B
rjk40
750 GT
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:54 am
Location: Malabar, Florida

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by rjk40 »

Hi Rick,

Is the little can in front of your Sachse ignition module the turn signal relay, that normally sits inside the headlamp housing?
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81mhr900ss
750 GT
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 81mhr900ss »

Yes; on an 81 MHR the headlamp shell is empty except for bulbs and wiring. That little can is my blinkie flasher.
rjk40
750 GT
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:54 am
Location: Malabar, Florida

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by rjk40 »

Thanks kindly, Rick, for the info and the prompt reply.

I like the idea of locating the blinker relay outside the headlamp shell, as it makes replacement so much easier. Gutting the headlamp shell for any reason is not my idea of a good time.

On my '75 860GT resto, I had to make a new wiring harness (gotta love those wiring diagrams done in Italian...), so the small change of the relocation of the relay is no big deal.

Regards,
Richard
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81mhr900ss
750 GT
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 81mhr900ss »

Hi Richard: my first Ducati was a 75 860GT! All sorts of goodies packed inside the headlamp shell. It's good that these bikes are relatively basic; keeps wiring simple.
rjk40
750 GT
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:54 am
Location: Malabar, Florida

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by rjk40 »

To MHR:

I apologize in advance if my question seems a bit lame:

Since you velcroed the igniton module to the convex curve of the fender,
did you take any measures to mount it flat?
Or, was there enough"grip" to ease any concern?
I am at the point of mounting the module.
Thanks in advance.
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81mhr900ss
750 GT
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 81mhr900ss »

Just one piece of Velcro worked fine; enough contact area despite the curvature of the rear fender.
Last edited by 81mhr900ss on Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
rjk40
750 GT
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:54 am
Location: Malabar, Florida

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by rjk40 »

Thanks, MHR,

I appreciate the info.

And yes, I did see the ground connection you mention.

I fully appreciate the essence of good grounding. In restoring my 1971 Chevelle, it became
obvious when I was putting in new wiring harnesses, how corrosion at the sheet metal grounds,
aka "Fisher Body" in the General Motors vernacular, and how corrosion affects conductance, readily confirmed by my handy ohmmeter.
Fortunately, these issues are often exposed by removing an old harness, then easily fixed.

I have a new Rick's regulator, as well as a new fuse block using current fuse technology, so the hookup might be a tad different.

Regards,
Richard
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81mhr900ss
750 GT
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 81mhr900ss »

My new fuse box. Note that the spare fuse is in use, a 30A in between the Shendingen rec/reg and the battery. I've attached a sketch too to show the wiring path note the rec/reg fuse size is wrong, shows 20A instead of 30A. This just adds a little more protection to the bike. I also have 7.5A fuses installed instead of 8A because that's what I had available:
Image
Image
rjk40
750 GT
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:54 am
Location: Malabar, Florida

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by rjk40 »

Thanks again for the info.

I really like your idea of "conservative" fusing; it makes good sense to baby these babies.

The Rick's regulator instructions are a bit different: they say to find the alternator's highest voltage across each pair of stator wires,
using all combinations of pairing. If the stator is three-wire, connect the pair of wires that gives the highest reading, to the regulator yellow
wires, and cap off the other wire. Obviously, this must be done with the engine running, and I am a ways from being there.

I've also added micro relays to carry the heavier currents (headlight, ignition, etc) instead of the "normal" process of the actual switches doing the carrying.
Hopefully, this will extend the life of those switches that are most vulnerable. The micro relays all take about 80 milliamps to energize, so their
load is quite small, the consumption being more than offset by one LED/1156 incandescent replacement. I mounted the relays on a piece of aluminum stock, where the rear cylinder air box used to mount (since I am no longer using the NOS air boxes).

Lastly, I have retrofitted the dash lights with the LED kit bought from Steve, making my own diode arrangement to take care of the turn signal
polarity issue. And, I have retrofitted LED turn signal bulbs, and purchased a "smart" blinker relay (to solve the hyperflashing issue), from Super Bright LEDs in Missouri.
I am trying to keep the load on the alternator as low as possible. The difference in current draw between the incandescents and LEDs is very significant: the 1156 LED is 0.18 amp vs 1.75 amp on the incandescent. The 1157 LED is 0.5 and 0.17 amps, vs 0.56 and 2.01 amps for the incandescent. Quite a saving, and although the LEDs are initially expensive, they last a long time,
and the ones from Super Bright have a stock bulb housing, and fit nicely inside the lamp housing.

The big unknown with the LEDs will be whether or not the pulsating DC off the alternator will be "smoothed" enough to keep the LEDs from
flickering, since they are way more sensitive than filaments.

Regards,
Richard
900tlc
Mariana
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:00 pm
Location: North Dorset,UK

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 900tlc »

I see alot has been written about the sasche ignition being set up. I need to share my experience so far of setting up.
When I first installed it,the bike fired up first time ,nice even tick over. The following week the engine would not start at all,finally got it to go,by changing the plugs and caps.Never took it for a test run. Again a week has gone by and no start ! The plugs are sparking and there is signs of fuel,but not a glimmer,very fustrating.
I have checked the timing,my LED s are green and yellow,the green light comes on at TDC on the front cylinder,then goes off when passing the 2nd magnet. Everyone on here keeps mentioning a RED L.E.D. The only red light I can see is one from the inside of the casing. The only thing I have moved is the alloy disc outwards, making a better alignment to the PCB sensors,by peering in with a torch. I might have fixed it,but I would be grateful,if anyone could help me, before I fasten up the casing etc.
rjk40
750 GT
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:54 am
Location: Malabar, Florida

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by rjk40 »

I wish I could help but haven't started mine up yet, as I have a ton of resto yet to do.

It would help to know the model of your bike. The possibilities are too numerous.

Have you contacted Marco at Sachse?:

[email protected]

Attn: Marco Patzer


Maybe mhr900 has some insights. He has one as well.
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81mhr900ss
750 GT
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 81mhr900ss »

900tlc: It's possible that Sacshe have changed the colours of their test LEDs and there is also a difference in delivery and set-up depending on which bevel 900s you have. In my case, an 81 Bosch, my Sacshe kit was ordered in April 2019. On Bosch bikes, the pickups are in the left side engine cover so the test LEDs are a separate item that connect temporarily to the Sachse ignition unit; mine were red (front cylinder) and green (rear). To set up my bike, I had to ensure that the rotor trigger ring matched the pickups location to trigger them; confirmed by the red LED going off at front cylinder TDC and the green at rear cylinder TDC. Once setup, the test LEDs (just two LEDS on the end of a short, three-wire harness) were removed.

I used a solid metal rule as a flat surface across the engine case to measure the exact depth of the pickups on the cover with a Vernier caliper and the exact length that the trigger magnets stuck out from the casing. I calculated the depth of the trigger magnets then positioned the trigger wheel the correct depth and adjusted it so that the "S" mark where the first magnet is was aligned with the cut on the end of the crankshaft, pointing directly at the front head. I then gently locked it with the grub screws and tested it. I got my trigger wheel position and TDC lights-out right second time after a tiny tweak. I still had to remove the cover again and Loctite the three grub screws on the trigger wheel then retest to ensure nothing had moved.

You state that the LEDs "come on at TDC"; my manual clearly states "The aim is that the LED goes out right in the TDC." I can't see why Sachse would change things so my guess is that you need to readjust your triggers so that the LEDs go off at TDC. From your description you have a similar setup to mine but there's no LED on my Sachse pickup plate. It's the first "S" magnet on the trigger ring that counts. I will take a peek at the latest Sachse installation documentation to see what has changed since last year.

Pictures always help:

Sachse pick-up plate:
Image

Sachse trigger ring head on and from side. Shown unlocked but this is exactly where it was locked:
Image
Trigger ring pushed on too far; the final position was as shown above with the inner surface flush with the inner ring outer surface:
Image

For reference to others: On the older bikes with the Ducati Elettronica system, the pickups are mounted to the engine casing so the Sachse replacement pickup plate has the red LED mounted directly to the pickup plate. Adjusting the trigger, turning the motor by hand to find TDC and watching the LED go off are all done with the left side engine cover off the motor.
Last edited by 81mhr900ss on Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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81mhr900ss
750 GT
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 81mhr900ss »

Just checked: the new Sachse manual shows yellow and green test LEDS; the yellow is for the front cylinder and green for rear and the pickup leads are now brown, green, yellow, white instead of black, green, white, red. Very confusing because they forgot to change the colour of the LED in the test instructions; still says "Now turn on the ignition switch and continue turning until the red LED turns on first and then turns off." This should state "yellow".

Also, nothing has changed with respect to LED off at TDC. The manual is not clear that it is supposed to be on the first "S: magnet but picture 4 on page 4 shows the trigger wheel exactly as mine is.

I hope this helps. One other thing; note that Ducati ballast resistors must be removed even if sticking with the old ND coils.

Good luck!
900tlc
Mariana
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:00 pm
Location: North Dorset,UK

Re: New ignition system: need advice!

Post by 900tlc »

Many thanks for your in depth help, in fact your original write up , gave me the push to to get the kit.
My bike is a GTS 900,with a Bosch crank set up. The only conflicting thing I find is the green LED is lighting up on the front cylinder.I have all the test wires going to the correct terminals. Green light on at TDC on the N position and going out at the S position and turning the crank clockwise.
With this episode the bike worked first kick,and refused to go after being left for a week,showing no life ,despite new plugs/caps and fuel. Not even a spit after 10 or so kicks,spark showing and fuel present. I will go back to the drawing board ,and recheck everything.
I have dialled in "0" and I get a constant spark,and all the voltages check out.The only thing I found slightly out,was the alloy disc needed to be brought out by 0.5 mm or so,Something could have moved.I aligned the keyway as a good starting point,as in the pictures, and Loctited the grub screws. I will write up my findings.The yellow LED,I thought was the rear cylinder doing its job,they refer to the front cylinder as the datum.The set up Im sure is simple,but is getting lost in translation and changing colours of components........
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