Hello,
I am looking for a handlebar option to replace the standard bar fitted to a 79 Darmah. I want something a little less "sit-up-and-beg" but want to retain the top yoke and the headlight brackets so this I imagine pretty much rules out a full clip-on. Additionally I want a bit more space on the RH bar to accomodate a 2 cable Tommaselli throttle and the start button. The standard bar forces the start assembly to be sited downstream of the bar bend.
Any thoughts or suggestions ?
Andy
Darmah handlebars
Andy,
I bought a set of what were known as 'Laverda' bars back in the early 80's. They consist of 3 parts, a cross bar that that goes where the standard bars go and is fixed in place by using existing brackets and then a shorter bar for either side. The shorter bars bolt to the cross bar using hirth couplings and are near infinately adjustable such that you can have them pointing downwards if you want.
The only complication is that my marzoch tubes use a raised fork cap 'nut' rather than a recessed hex fitting. As such the cross bar couldn't be clamped down firmly as the standard bars swept up slightly to clear the fork caps. I made up a couple of curved aluminium spacers to lift the cross bar up a bit from the bottom bracket so that it cleared the fork caps. Not elegant but safe and works. When money permits will replace existing fork caps with the early style recessed caps and get rid of spacers. If you already have recessed hex fork caps then this shouldn't be an issue.
The laverda bars don't require as long a 'reach' as clipons but still get your body down/forward more than the standard bars. They are long enough for levers and switches.
I know Steve was selling bars recently on his shop that seemed equivalent to the laverdas. They were called 'condor' bars. Couldn't see them listed at the moment though. Condors are made by tomaselli so presumably they are available new somewhere.
Mick
I bought a set of what were known as 'Laverda' bars back in the early 80's. They consist of 3 parts, a cross bar that that goes where the standard bars go and is fixed in place by using existing brackets and then a shorter bar for either side. The shorter bars bolt to the cross bar using hirth couplings and are near infinately adjustable such that you can have them pointing downwards if you want.
The only complication is that my marzoch tubes use a raised fork cap 'nut' rather than a recessed hex fitting. As such the cross bar couldn't be clamped down firmly as the standard bars swept up slightly to clear the fork caps. I made up a couple of curved aluminium spacers to lift the cross bar up a bit from the bottom bracket so that it cleared the fork caps. Not elegant but safe and works. When money permits will replace existing fork caps with the early style recessed caps and get rid of spacers. If you already have recessed hex fork caps then this shouldn't be an issue.
The laverda bars don't require as long a 'reach' as clipons but still get your body down/forward more than the standard bars. They are long enough for levers and switches.
I know Steve was selling bars recently on his shop that seemed equivalent to the laverdas. They were called 'condor' bars. Couldn't see them listed at the moment though. Condors are made by tomaselli so presumably they are available new somewhere.
Mick
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MartinMille BANNED
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Doh!!
when I said 3 piece I should have said 5 piece (yes I can count but first thing in the morning waiting for the temp to kick up to 45C I sort of forgot to engage the brain) (Hey Marty how come you didn't pick this up!!)
There is a short bar that connects at right angles to the cross bar. At the other end of this connecting bar is a 90 degree bend to which the handlebars connect. As per previous post all connections use hirth couplings and pass through hex bolts. (10mm diam from memory - Marty ..??) I think the condor bars use a different set up.
Cross bar to connecting bar gives you rotation in vertical plane. Connecting bar to handlebar gives rotation in horizontal plane. Plus you can fine tune by rotatiing cross bar in mounts before you tension up mounting bolts.
Marty's picture gives a really good view of the laverda bar set up.
As I said though if you have the raised 'nut' type fork cap the cross bar won't sit flush in the lower mount unless you either:
- drop the forks down 6mm or so (not recommended as it changes geometry of front end albeit subtley)
- make up tapered, curved spacers to fit between bottom mounts and underside of cross bar (ok but not ideal)
- replace caps with recessed hex type
I'd buy the laverda bars given they are original. The original lav's are strong steel tubes and well chromed. Mine are still in great condition after 25 odd years.
I've bought some stuff off Marty so I'd grab em if I was you.
Mick
when I said 3 piece I should have said 5 piece (yes I can count but first thing in the morning waiting for the temp to kick up to 45C I sort of forgot to engage the brain) (Hey Marty how come you didn't pick this up!!)
There is a short bar that connects at right angles to the cross bar. At the other end of this connecting bar is a 90 degree bend to which the handlebars connect. As per previous post all connections use hirth couplings and pass through hex bolts. (10mm diam from memory - Marty ..??) I think the condor bars use a different set up.
Cross bar to connecting bar gives you rotation in vertical plane. Connecting bar to handlebar gives rotation in horizontal plane. Plus you can fine tune by rotatiing cross bar in mounts before you tension up mounting bolts.
Marty's picture gives a really good view of the laverda bar set up.
As I said though if you have the raised 'nut' type fork cap the cross bar won't sit flush in the lower mount unless you either:
- drop the forks down 6mm or so (not recommended as it changes geometry of front end albeit subtley)
- make up tapered, curved spacers to fit between bottom mounts and underside of cross bar (ok but not ideal)
- replace caps with recessed hex type
I'd buy the laverda bars given they are original. The original lav's are strong steel tubes and well chromed. Mine are still in great condition after 25 odd years.
I've bought some stuff off Marty so I'd grab em if I was you.
Mick
Last edited by mgh1955 on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MartinMille BANNED
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Hey Mick , your right how did I miss that as well (5 piece) must have been the cup of Coffee that did that LOL, here is the layout of the bar and yes they are 10mm hex bolts , the chrome isn't that flash , I have not given them a buff but I'm sure they will clean up great , Like I said there genuine and ask your self when was the last time you saw one on Ebay ? not many floating around anymore, anyway there here if you need them
Thanks for your input,
Martin thanks for the offer of your Jota items but I think they will require replating so I will bear your offer in mind but at the moment I am looking for a new item.
The condor tip seems to be the way to go however, steve does not have them yet but they are available in the UK which is better for me however the seller indicates that the free bar length for switches etc is 220mm. As stated earlier I would like to be able to incorporate the twin throttle cable option which is already fitted and my estimation of the total length of grip, throttle, start button and m/cyl clamp is 233 mm. Perhaps the straight bar section of the condor can be replaced with any old 7/8 straight bar cut to length. The problem I then envisage is whether the m/cyl assembly as far as the hose banjo bolt will interfere with other headstock components. I have the recessed fork nuts so that is not a problem. In the gallery there is an ssd (pic12) which has the ducati clipons and what looks like the additional throttle assembly and it all seems to fit on the bar, what is the length of the straight part of the clipon ?
@mgh1955 what is the length of your laverda bar straight section ?
Has anybody here actually used the condor on an SD ?
Heres the UK option
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/handl ... d_311.html
Martin thanks for the offer of your Jota items but I think they will require replating so I will bear your offer in mind but at the moment I am looking for a new item.
The condor tip seems to be the way to go however, steve does not have them yet but they are available in the UK which is better for me however the seller indicates that the free bar length for switches etc is 220mm. As stated earlier I would like to be able to incorporate the twin throttle cable option which is already fitted and my estimation of the total length of grip, throttle, start button and m/cyl clamp is 233 mm. Perhaps the straight bar section of the condor can be replaced with any old 7/8 straight bar cut to length. The problem I then envisage is whether the m/cyl assembly as far as the hose banjo bolt will interfere with other headstock components. I have the recessed fork nuts so that is not a problem. In the gallery there is an ssd (pic12) which has the ducati clipons and what looks like the additional throttle assembly and it all seems to fit on the bar, what is the length of the straight part of the clipon ?
@mgh1955 what is the length of your laverda bar straight section ?
Has anybody here actually used the condor on an SD ?
Heres the UK option
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/handl ... d_311.html
The reason for wanting condor or Jota bars is to have the option to set the height and pull back to exactly what I am most confortable with, flat or low bars may well achieve what I want, cheaper but then again they might not.
My second consideration regarding the fixing of twin cable throttle and electric start to enable one handed starting (with standard bars and a twin cable throttle and only electric start, i need two hands or a 15" thumb) Not sure if that will work though as the brake lever position may not be optimal and I will need to fit a standard single throttle assembly. Sorry that may not have been too clear from the OP. Do you recall Bruce that you advised me over on Ducati.MS, before I bought it, why my bike had an electric start button near the ignition switch !
My second consideration regarding the fixing of twin cable throttle and electric start to enable one handed starting (with standard bars and a twin cable throttle and only electric start, i need two hands or a 15" thumb) Not sure if that will work though as the brake lever position may not be optimal and I will need to fit a standard single throttle assembly. Sorry that may not have been too clear from the OP. Do you recall Bruce that you advised me over on Ducati.MS, before I bought it, why my bike had an electric start button near the ignition switch !
Andy,
I assume your set up problem is that you have a stand alone startermotor button unit that cannot be located adjacent to the throttle due to space limitations.
My '82 SD came standard with a twin cable throttle with the starter motor button integrated into the housing (along with the engine kill switch). The main thng is you can fire up the engine with just your right hand.
Not sure if this link to photo will work; first time I've tried it.
http://invitation.bigpondphotos.com.au/ ... 5045B8E4E5
Mick
I assume your set up problem is that you have a stand alone startermotor button unit that cannot be located adjacent to the throttle due to space limitations.
My '82 SD came standard with a twin cable throttle with the starter motor button integrated into the housing (along with the engine kill switch). The main thng is you can fire up the engine with just your right hand.
Not sure if this link to photo will work; first time I've tried it.
http://invitation.bigpondphotos.com.au/ ... 5045B8E4E5
Mick
Mick, what you have is what I would like to achieve although with the individual components, a Tommaselli 2c throttle, the standard SD start button assembly and all on a lower bar. I have now been able to see the Falloon bible and p.75 shows a unique assembly as supplied to 78,79 GTS which seems to show that its possible although in this case it looks like the throttle housing is specifically shaped to accomodate the switch assy. What you have, would require sourcing more original parts so I will see how it goes with what I have when I get some bars.
Garry, i think the problem I would have with your suggestion is getting the Verlicchi throttle.
Garry, i think the problem I would have with your suggestion is getting the Verlicchi throttle.