Old oil filter separated from cap in my '74 GT! Help!!

[motomerle]

I just got the bike on the road and was going to change the oil and replace the original filter with a replacement I got from Steve last year. After taking it out for a spin to warm up the oil, I removed the plug and to drain the oil and the filter wasn't attached.

It was the original filter/plug and is construceted a bit differently than the replacement but this part is only from memory as I try to figure out what I'm seeing looking into the hole with a fl;ashlight. The original's "exoskeleton" is made of hard grey plastic and he screen was attached to the outside. I can't remember what was on the end but it musht have been a tube lof similar diameter as the replacement's.

Anyway, from what I can see with the flashlight, it appears that the screen and filter are too far inside the opening and there is about 3/4 of the black rubber that must have held the hard plastic part into the cap?

It is obviously way too far in as the grey core is in about 1/2" deeper than the end of the cap and at the top of where there should have been screen is a port which I assume caries oil. The missing piece of rubber would have been covering this port and I can only hope it was flowing in, not out and the missing chunk of rubberis inside the screen!

I tried getting on the rubber with forceps which got me nowhere and I tried using a pic to try to get the other side of the plastic core but couldn't get and purchase(and didn't want to poke a hole in the screen.However it got there, it seems to be a really tight press fit. I'm not doing a thing until I can get a better concept of what the filter's position is suppossed to be from the oil galley diagram which I seem to have misplaced when scamming to make a t-shirt iron on.

It could be wedged on the plug end but to get that far in, it much be wedged pretty tight on the opposite end and I sure don't want to have to split the cases due to stupidity;which going any furether right now would be..

[BevHevSteve]

hi Merle, are you saying that the original screen 'tube' stayed in the motor, and only the aluminum plug thing [the part you put a wrnech on to remove it all] stayed put? And, you can;t simply pull the screen tube out?

If that is the case, look at the replacement, see the small end that sticks into the motor - the original is the same. IOW you see, it is a slip fit into a wierd shaped rubber thing on the other side of the motor.

Since you have not run your bike for so long, I would think that that rubber part degraded, and, stuck itself to that plastic tube.

Do you have a heat gun?

I think if I understand your case, that I would put a bit of heat down the middle of the screen, then try to grab it again with some needle nose plyers and give it a twst and pull.

If I don;t understand what you are describing, please try again, maybe I can com eup with something better for you to try. Feel free to give me a call too.

[motomerle]

Steve, thanks for the reply. I tried to describe what I see a bit better below

hi Merle, are you saying that the original screen 'tube' stayed in the motor, and only the aluminum plug thing [the part you put a wrnech on to remove it all] stayed put? And, you can;t simply pull the screen tube out?

The plug came out empty and everything else is inside the case. I may have to move the exhaust so I can get a straight shot at it. I don't have anything I can grip the screen tube with. There's not room to wedge anthing between it and where it is in the case. I've tried yanking on the rubber with forceps. The plastic tube is so far in that no pair of needle nose pliers I have would be able to grab it. It's hard plastic and there is no place to put needle nose or forceps between it and the case. I'm afraid of trying too hard and end up pushing it to the other side of the shoulder where I wouldn't be alble to get at it at all.




<<If that is the case, look at the replacement, see the small end that sticks into the motor - the original is the same. IOW you see, it is a slip fit into a wierd shaped rubber thing on the other side of the motor.>>

I figured that the other end fits into something to seal the inside from outside of the screen. Which way does the oil flow; hopefully from the cap end to the other end? I can figure out why it would be able to slide in so far if the inside end it is suppose4ed to bottom aqainst the rubber thing at the other end unless the frame of the screen has collapsed. I tried bending a coat hanger and catching the inside of the plasic tube but there doesn't seem to be a shoulder to catch.

<<Since you have not run your bike for so long, I would think that that rubber part degraded, and, stuck itself to that plastic tube.>>
By the rubber part, you mean the tapered rubber part that the inside end of the tube butts up to/is inside?


Do you have a heat gun?

I can get one.

I think if I understand your case, that I would put a bit of heat down the middle of the screen, then try to grab it again with some needle nose plyers and give it a twst and pull.

I think the heat might get the other end to break loose, but there's nothing to grab with pliers on the cap end as the grey plastic on the cap end is in tight and flush with the outside shoulder of the hole.

If I don;t understand what you are describing, please try again, maybe I can com eup with something better for you to try. Feel free to give me a call too.

[Den]

I hate to have to tell you this, but, everything will become crystal clear once you have SPLIT THE CASES!

[motomerle]

I hate to have to tell you this, but, everything will become crystal clear once you have SPLIT THE CASES!

Split the cases? How am I going to do that with the screen/filter holding them together

[Den]

Trust me, it's not. That will probably be the least of your difficulties in your first time opening up the cases.

[motomerle]

Trust me, it's not. That will probably be the least of your difficulties in your first time opening up the cases.

For one thing, I wouldn't be the one splitting them; only the one paying to have it done which I'd like to aviod at all costs(no pun intended but I'll take it).

I found my diagram or the oiling system so I don't have to imagine what's in there and am going to have another go at it tomorrow. If it's not hopelessy broke, don't mess with success.

[BevHevSteve]

Merle, the end of the screen unit just slips into a rubber plug like thing. It is just stuck to that plug. Find a way to grip onto the tube and yank it on outta there. You are not going to have to split the cases unless it breaks off down inside etc. I am going to try to find some time to pull out a plug thing as well as a screen and post a photo but it might not happen for a few days as I am playing catchup right now still........... and tomorrow is goingto be worse.

[motomerle]

Merle, the end of the screen unit just slips into a rubber plug like thing. It is just stuck to that plug. Find a way to grip onto the tube and yank it on outta there. You are not going to have to split the cases unless it breaks off down inside etc. I am going to try to find some time to pull out a plug thing as well as a screen and post a photo but it might not happen for a few days as I am playing catchup right now still........... and tomorrow is goingto be worse.

Steve, thanks. I don'ty know where I'd find one that small but something like one of tose rubber plugs they use for pressure testing plumbing lines that is a bolt with a couple of washere with an appropriately sized piec of rubber between that expands as the bolt is turned clockwise. The thing I'm asfraid of using the pic is puncturing the screen and getting pieces in the sump or causing it to pull apart. I'm not going to push my luck until I get a look at your picture.

It didn't seem that the pipe got in the way that I remember as it seemed once the threads cleared there was enough flex to get the screen out without removing pipe but I'm sure over the years, this didn't make the cap/screen connection any better

I don't know as it's stuck as much as there's nothing to get a grip on although, getting forceps on the rubber(that I think was originally sandwiched between inside of cap/plug and plastic tube of filter) and pulling doesn't seem to get me anywhere as I can't get them tight enough not to slide off the oily rubber..

[Geoff]

Ok, here's a suggestion. The idea is to lock into the remains of the old filter and pull it out. I may have mis-interpreted your description in which case I apologise now!

Get either a long bolt or threaded rod (long enough to pass through the drain hole, through the screen and into the hole on the other case with some sticking out for you to grip) with a size that either screws into or is a strong interference fit with the small end of the screen (the bit that fits into the rubber recepticle on the other case from the drain hole). Lock two nuts on to that rod/ bolt that are a slight interference fit (may have to file of turn them down a bit or use something else like bondo) into remains of the screen to centralise the rod or bolt. A bit like this:


Slide the rod assembly into the old filter either screwing the end of the rod into the far end of the filter (the narrow portion) or knocking it gently in to locate. When you're located in the filter the two centralising nuts (or bondo) should just be inside the drain hole and inside the remains of the filter (to centralise same). Grab hold of the rod and pull or slide hammer it gently out. If it looks like you're bunching up the filter then you can either keep going with the hope that you can strip the bits out or that you will be able to grip the remains. Again as per Steve perhaps a little heat might help (also to the outside of the RH casing where the end of the filter locates I wonder?)

Just a suggestion, no warranty impled!
Cheers
Geoff

[motomerle]

Thanks for the advice and especially the graphics. This may be just the ticket although I don't think it's stuck that hard but just a matter of having nothing to grab onto as the plug end of the screen is just flush with the bottom of the drain hole's shoulder. I think if it get to the point where bunching of the screen occurs, it will already be freed from the case end and I could do the same with the polug end.

I haven't yet got the concept of where the "centrallizing" nuts are supposed to interference fit but I'm "spacially challenged" and not thinking in 3D. I'm thinking using the threaded rod(we call all thread in the US) and getting a fit on the inside of the far end and once threaded into it, putting a large fender washer to bear againse the outside of the drain hole and then run an nut down against it using it like a puller.

Ok, here's a suggestion. The idea is to lock into the remains of the old filter and pull it out. I may have mis-interpreted your description in which case I apologise now!

Get either a long bolt or threaded rod (long enough to pass through the drain hole, through the screen and into the hole on the other case with some sticking out for you to grip) with a size that either screws into or is a strong interference fit with the small end of the screen (the bit that fits into the rubber recepticle on the other case from the drain hole). Lock two nuts on to that rod/ bolt that are a slight interference fit (may have to file of turn them down a bit or use something else like bondo) into remains of the screen to centralise the rod or bolt. A bit like this:


Slide the rod assembly into the old filter either screwing the end of the rod into the far end of the filter (the narrow portion) or knocking it gently in to locate. When you're located in the filter the two centralising nuts (or bondo) should just be inside the drain hole and inside the remains of the filter (to centralise same). Grab hold of the rod and pull or slide hammer it gently out. If it looks like you're bunching up the filter then you can either keep going with the hope that you can strip the bits out or that you will be able to grip the remains. Again as per Steve perhaps a little heat might help (also to the outside of the RH casing where t

he end of the filter locates I wonder?)

Just a suggestion, no warranty impled!
Cheers
Geoff

[Geoff]

Sorry for not being clear; the nuts are supposed to fit inside the jagged end of the screen to help retain it's shape and centralisation while you pull it out!

[motomerle]

No, it was I who wasn't being clear. My filter still has both ends intact and no loose screen. It's just that the plug end of the gray plastic "tube" has separated from the plug/cap and is flush with the plug end of the opening into the sump, leaving nothing to grab onto.

Sorry for not being clear; the nuts are supposed to fit inside the jagged end of the screen to help retain it's shape and centralisation while you pull it out!

[Geoff]

No, it was I who wasn't being clear. My filter still has both ends intact and no loose screen. It's just that the plug end of the gray plastic "tube" has separated from the plug/cap and is flush with the plug end of the opening into the sump, leaving nothing to grab onto.

Then my suggested method should work...

[BevHevSteve]

merle, Geoff's suggestion sounds great if the all thread will suffeciantly grab the inside of that end it will work. FYI I get 7.9mm ID on the plastic end of the screen where you need to insert that all-thread, so I'd bet an 8mm threaded rod would do the trick.

Photos posted



Note the little rubber wierd thing on the left in the photo, this is the part that is secured into the case with the screw on the bottom of the case that the filter screen unit slips into., wouldn;t it be grand if simply unscrewing that little set screw thing would mean both pieces coming right out? Maybe someone who is an expert bevel engine builder can advise, but I think this is the case... I AM NOT SURE OF THIS AS FACT but pretty darn sure.

I believe these are the 2 parts that have stuck together right?