Is detergent an issue when changing to Castrol DD 50?

gabby · Post by **gabby** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:42 pm

Hello. Without wishing to start off with any sort of major oil discussion here... I'm aware of the negative comments about using a detergent oil in a bevel engine. Or should I say in a dirty engine where it's been said it can loosen deposits with bad results. So, if I was using Shell HD50, which I now can't get, and change to DD 50, should I be concerned? This states it's got detergent. It's a 750GT and done only a few thou since rebuild. Thanks, G

rwhc80 · Post by **rwhc80** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:33 pm

G"day Gabby,

Boy, glad you clarified your first line, cause oil is such a such a contentious issue.
Castrol CRB50 was recommended to me years ago by a Ducati mechanic who swore by it. The DD50 Tection is the replacement for that oil as it was discontinued a few years ago. Amongst my group of friends who own old bevels and use the DD50, none of us have had any problems at all, so I would say go for it.

Others may disagree, but I will stick with what has worked for me !

Cheers
Rick

Post by **BevHevSteve** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:19 am

Use whatever you want to as long as it carries an SG rating

gabby · Post by **gabby** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm

Thanks guys for the replies. It sounds safe - must tell myself to stop being paranoid about the old girl.

big phil · Post by **big phil** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:12 pm

BevHevSteve wrote:Use whatever you want to as long as it carries an SG rating

hi, whats an S G rating?

Craig in France · Post by **Craig in France** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:34 am

big phil wrote:hi, whats an SG rating?

Hi Big Phil,

It's the API system of rating the properties of engine oils, API being the American Petroleum Institute. The 'S' tells you it's an oil designed for use in petrol engines, as opposed to diesels. The 'G' is, in origin, a time-related designation: the letter changes whenever a new standard is required to reflect changes in oil technology. The first standard was 'A' back in the 1930s and we're now on 'N'.

What this means in practice is that, by looking at the rating printed on the oil tin, you can determine things like zinc content. Zinc is something that our engines need, but which newer oils don't have 'cos it does nasty things to catalytic converters. Hence Steve's support for 'older' ('obselete' is what API call them!) SG rated oils. API considers SG oils to be suitable for 1993 and older engines.

Lots of info on Tinternet; for example, go
http://www.aa1car.com/library/api_motor ... ations.htm

HTH

Craig

Peter Mille · Post by **Peter Mille** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:22 am

What about the Mille?
Does it need SG as well?
Currently I'm using Castrol synthetic 10W50 SG rating, but the newest version of this oil is SJ rating...can I use it, or find something else?
Been using castrol Synthetic from new in 1985, and like to keep on using it, if possible.
Castrol Europe has currently only just one motorcycle oil with SG rating, the Hydrocrack ( part synthetic) 20W50 Castrol Twin oil....

Post by **BevHevSteve** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:09 am

All bevel drives........ SG rated a must.

Steve Foster · Post by **Steve Foster** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:08 am

The Castrol Edge Sport 25W-50 has an SG rating if you're keen on using Castrol.

http://www.castroledge.com.au/downloads ... 200601.pdf

The monograde Castrol Tection DD 50 that has been mentioned has an API SF petrol rating.

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/5028_ ... 200611.pdf

Peter Mille · Post by **Peter Mille** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:33 am

Thanks Steve,
Unfortunately, Castrol Germany doesn't sell it, the part synthetic Castrol Twin 20W50 is the only oil with a S/G rating left in the Castrol range overhere, maybe I will use that in the future.

http://www.castrolmoto.com/de/products/power1_twin.php

Peter Mille · Post by **Peter Mille** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:18 am

Why only SG rated oil?
I have send Castrol Germany an email about what oil to use in my Mille.
They told me a SJ oil is OK for my Duc, it "superseded" SG, SH oils...!

Or do we need this:

http://www.zddplus.com/

Craig in France · Post by **Craig in France** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:23 am

Peter Mille wrote:Why only SG rated oil? <snip>

Hi Peter,

This is what I understand ...

1. Yes, ZDD (aka ZDP or ZDDP)* is generally considered a 'Good Thing' for our kind of valve gear. There is test evidence that it helps reduce wear and 'scuff' (as it's called). That said, it should only really come into play in extreme circumstances; so, if you change your oil frequently anyway, it probably doesn't matter too much.

2. The ZDP content of a SG oil is 1200-1500 parts per million. In an SJ oil, it's 1000 ppm. So not THAT different. It's SM oils that you most want to avoid: the ZDP content in these is 600 ppm. And there does seem to be evidence that valve train damage can occur at this level ..

3. The other thing about SJ oils is that they contain more molybdenum disulphide than SG oils. Molybdenum disulphide acts as a 'friction modifier', i.e. it reduces friction between components, particularly at high temperatures such as you get in car turbos. Another effect it can have is to improve fuel consumption. So both effects should be 'Good Things'.

Unfortunately, it can also cause problems with wet clutches, causing slip. That said, the recommended oil for my Laverda 750 Formula - roller bearing crank, sliding valves, wet clutch - is a 20-60, SJ, synthetic ...

4. Just beware the 'Total Backwards Compatibilty' claims of the API. It has been claimed that the old engines that were used to test the newer grades of oil were low performance, i.e. the oils were not subjected to rigorous working conditions.

HTH

Craig

* Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate

Peter Mille · Post by **Peter Mille** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:37 am

Thanks,
I have send Castrol Germany a mail regarding ZDDP in modern ( SJ) oils and Ducati Bevels.
They told me that ZDDP has vanished from their latest range of oils, but new technology has come in it's place, they call it UMA technology, whatever.
Castrol told me it's absolutely safe to use the latest range of synthetic 10W50 SJ rated oil in my Ducati....???
http://www.castrolmoto.com/de/products/ ... racing.php

Peter Mille · Post by **Peter Mille** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:04 pm

http://www.api.org/certifications/engin ... 120210.pdf

Peter Mille · Post by **Peter Mille** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:55 am

Well, I bought 5 L Castrol Power 1 10W50 for my Mille today.
It's sl specs...!!