860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

If you need technical information or help with your early crossover gearchange squarecase Ducati 860/900 engine - post your FAQs, comments & questions here.
Post Reply
User avatar
jcroson
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:56 am
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by jcroson » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:01 am

I'm trying to remove the alternator cover on my 860GT due to a snapped fastener. I've removed the shifter assembly and all surrounding bolts, and also the plastic plug.

The shop manual suggests a dead blow hammer to loosen the case, depicting striking it near where the shifter assembly was removed. I've tried there, and all round the case, yet it still behaves as if there is still a fastener in place.

It's really in place firmly, and I'm reluctant to wack it any harder than I already have. I've even tried to use a brass drift on areas where I can get a bite, but no go.

Am I missing something here, or are these covers usually this stubborn?

Has anyone got any tips for me?
1975 Ducati 860GT
1974 Kawasaki Z1 900
1999 Yamaha XVZ13TF

User avatar
Gardner
Diana
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:09 am
Location: Davenport, Ia

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by Gardner » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:11 pm

These two are the only ones kinda hidden.
There are 2 locating dowels so it won't move sideways just pretty much straight at you.
Image
1978 SD Darmah
1979 SSD Darmah
1981 900SS
2017 Desert Sled
1982 Bimota HB2

User avatar
jcroson
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:56 am
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by jcroson » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:35 pm

Thanks, but I got the top one you indicate. It's the bottom one that's been snapped off.
1975 Ducati 860GT
1974 Kawasaki Z1 900
1999 Yamaha XVZ13TF

wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by wdietz186 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:25 pm

Sure it is snapped off and not just badly rounded or has been drilled but not enough to remove the head? Smack it sharply around the periphery at the joint with a soft faced hammer, you just want to get things to vibrate to break the seal. Unless someone epoxied it on! If it is a broken bolt and it has been in the weather, the shaft could be pretty badly corroded. Soak it with Kroil or PB blaster and maybe some heat.

User avatar
Craig in France
Cagiva Gran Canyon
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:58 pm
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by Craig in France » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:31 am

As others: DON'T whack the case any harder. It won't do any good and may do damage.

If the bolt is still in there, you may ultimately have to drill its head off. Which is time consuming and needs to be done carefully.* But, if it's just the socket part of the bolt that is damaged, there is another way ...

Get yourself a piece of square steel bar that is just bigger than the socket. It needs to be 6" long or so. File the end of this down into a wedge shape so that is a 'tap fit' into what's left of the mangled socket. See photos:

Image

Once it's securely in place, use a socket - or even better, an impact driver - on the square section of bar, and you may very well be able to turn the bolt out.

Whatever you do, do NOT use an Easy-Out or anything similar. They simply do not work and worse than that, they snap. And then you WILL have a problem ... :shock:

* If you do end up having the drill the had off, buy yourself a left-hand drill bit. This can help unwind the bolt.

HTH

P.s And when you fit the screws back in, remember to use some anti-seize on the threads ;)

Craig

User avatar
jcroson
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:56 am
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by jcroson » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:01 pm

There is no head left on the hex but, it's completely gone.

I've soaked it with WD-40. I'll wait a few days and apply some heat and see how far I get.

Good Lord, I hope the previous owner didn't use some crazy adhesive!
1975 Ducati 860GT
1974 Kawasaki Z1 900
1999 Yamaha XVZ13TF

wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by wdietz186 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:39 pm

Looking in the hole, can you see the edge of the cover around the shaft of the bolt? The shaft of the bolt is 6mm and the hole in the cover is approx. 7mm, look into the other hole to get the idea. If not you probably have a badly rounded hex and the head of the bolt is still there. Give Craig's solution a try and if that fails you can carefully drill the head off of the allen bolt with a good sharp 1/4" drill bit. A left hand bit is preferable but with care a r/h bit will work fine. The trick is to drill into the head of the bolt just deep enough to cause the bolt head to separate from the shank of the bolt without drilling into the cover. That should leave enough of the shank sticking out after you remove the cover to grab it with a stud remover or vise grips. WD40 isn't very good as a penetrating oil, PB Blaster or Kroil works much, much better. People have also had good luck with a mixture of ATF and Acetone [around 50/50 ] but it takes a bit longer.

ducadini
860 GT / GTS
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Antwerpen

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by ducadini » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:19 am

Does it REALLY have to come off ? or is it just to fix the broken screw ? It should stay on and not leak with one bolt missing so :roll:

If the hex head is gone, there should be no further obstruction to remove the cover.
Just the two dowels AND the crankshaft can hold it in place.
Options : Some singles had a little piece with hex that screwed into the crankcase-oilfiller-hole, was made of steel.
Disconnect alternatorwires at the regulator,slide the piece over the wires, screw into cover and use it as leveragepoint.
At the rear, the cover is thick so not much chance of irrepairable ( and quiet invisible) damage there.
Option : measure the hole with the broken screw, make a thread slightly larger into this hole and with a modified bolt pushing on the broken screw, you can push the cover off (hopefully). later clean the tapped hole so it's nearly stocklooking.

There are a few places in that cover that are VERY thick.
Does anyone have one to check ?
Maybe it's possible to use that part to "lever off" the cover ?

ciao
ducadini
Nego i ricordi peggiori
Richiamo i migliori pensieri

User avatar
Craig in France
Cagiva Gran Canyon
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:58 pm
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by Craig in France » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:50 am

jcroson wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:01 pm
There is no head left on the hex but, it's completely gone.
Ah! Do you mean that the head of the bolt is "completely gone"? Well, that can only be the result of someone who has already has drilled the head off, trying and failing to remove the cover. In that case (and as per Ducadini), it ain't the bolt :shock: . The bolt is now just a stud and ain't holding nuthin. You need to look elsewhere.

Or do you mean the socket in the head is completely rounded out? In which case, tapping a square ended bar into the rounded-out socket can still grab enough metal to enable you to undo the screw. That's the whole point of using a square section bar.
jcroson wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:01 pm
I've soaked it with WD-40.
This isn't relevant if there's no head on the screw. But FWIW and for future reference:
For an anti-seize, you can do MUCH better than WD40. Lots of proprietary alternatives - Kroil, for example. But even a 50:50 mix of acetone and ATF will be more effective than WD40.

wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by wdietz186 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:19 pm

If the hex is just fully rounded, sometimes a Torx driver can be hammered into the hole so the flutes of the bit can grip the hole. I think a T25 or 30 is about the right size. Long ones are usually available at your local Harbor Freight or a decent parts store. If that proves fruitless get a good sharp 1/4" drill bit, left hand if you can and drill the remains of the head off the shank. Try not to drill into the cover but if you do it's not the end of the world, the boss for that bolt id pretty long. If the head truly is missing [see my prev. post] it may just be badly corroded around the shank of the bolt. Salt[that wonderful Florida air] steel and aluminum are almost as good as welding when it comes to sticking things together. Heat [plenty] good penetrating oil[also plenty] and some vibration [tap the remains with a punch] will usually release its grip. Remember, Patience is a virtue!

User avatar
BevHevSteve
SITE OWNER
SITE OWNER
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Lafayette, California
Contact:

Re: 860GT Right Side Cover...stuck??

Post by BevHevSteve » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:14 am

"Patience is a virtue!"

Truth that. I have been working on 3 Brembo calipers with stuck bolts holding the halves together now for over a month probably more like 6 or 7 weeks now. Dinally got the out yesterday.

Sprayed kroil and let sit for a few days, sprayed it again - repeat. The bolts sit low in the threaded holes on the back so there is like a cup which I would fill with the stuff. Every friday i got my hot air gun out a heated those things up a •lot• then dumped in a bucket of cold water - repeat.

Finally was able to turn the bolts out on 2 of the calipers anyways so they hve been strupped and cleaned, the guybthat refinishes my Brembo stuff hs em now. The 3rd caliper had 1 stuck bolt only but yesterday the tool spun in the bolt so I am going to plug weld a large nut to the end of it and use a wrench. Hipefully the heat from the welding will break the corrosion bond and i can get it off that way.

Once you do get that cover off, suggest you do the same - weld a large nut onto the broken stud - should be easy to remove it from there.

I am assuming you have removed the sprocket cover already, yes? If not, do so. Also, iPhones have a built in magnifying glass - use that to take a photo od the broken or rounded off screw so you know FOR SURE what you are dealing with.
Image
Steve Allen (925)798-BEVL[2385] Ride'm, Don't Hide'm
Ducati/Euro Spares -> https://Store.BevelHeaven.com
Facebook > http://facebook.com/Bevel.Heaven
Twitter > http://www.Twitter.com/BevelHeaven

Post Reply

Return to “Squarecase Early 860/900 Crossover Gearchange Engines > 860/900 GT”