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851cc Pantah conversion

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:14 am
by sbelcher
I am building a TT1 motor and intend to copy the Marco Luccinelli TT1 motor of 1987 by using a modified 851 crank within late model 750SS crankcases combined with the 900SS bore of 92mm. Has anyone done this conversion? I know Ferracci did a 92mm conversion using steel sleeves, but I have heard bad reports and am not convinced about expansion rate issues between the aluminium barrel and the new (thin!) sleeve. I figure I will bore out the 750 cylinder and manufacture a thicker aluminium liner that can be shrink fitted and Nikisil plated... I figure that the 900SS barrels have a different stud pitch so they cant be bolted straight on.
I work as a Mechanical Engineer and am finding Pantah parts quite difficult to source (especially heads!). Is there any interest in me re-making some of the "performance parts" used on the TT series bikes? i.e. magnesium dry clutch casings, magnesium generator covers. Generally, machined and fabricated marts are available as they are easily made, but the cast parts are a problem in my experience.
Anyone got a pair of late model 750F1 <?> heads?

Re: 851cc Pantah conversion

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:39 am
by Gomi
sbelcher wrote: Anyone got a pair of late model 750F1 <?> heads?
The pair I haveis on the bike so I need it, sorry :lol:
However, I know where I can get a pair, if price is not a problem. heads, particlarly vertical one, are probably the most difficult parts to find for F1. Some people use 600 Pantah ones that they machine to drop the F1's bigger pistons inside. Dunno if it's reliable...

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:21 pm
by sbelcher
Thanks for the response - when you say "if price is not a problem" what kind of money are we talking about and are you offering the late heads with the small diameter spark plug? Thanks, Steve

P.S. I have heard rumour of a seat available, I will enquire and let you know...

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:55 pm
by Gomi
The complete story:

My mechanic used to set Pantahs and TT (he ran a very beautiful Factory TT F1 which is still beautyfying the workshop) and have a consequent collection of parts.
I know because I saw them lying in his workshop that he have a set of heads for F1. I enquired about his willingness to give them to me (I always try to get something for free before paying for it :lol: ) and he just said "cost too much for you" 8) .
I have absolutely no idea of the price he would ask for them, and even if he would be really willing to sell them, but I can ask, that's free...
I never paid attention to the size of the spark plug holes, so I shall check that before going forward I guess.

I do know that "like new" heads here in France sell for unreasonable price, but they are sold to unreasonable people...

Plus, such parts weight is important, and shipping costs from the old european continent across the ocean will I fear cost around 1 Franklin (he's the guy on the 100's, isn't he? :oops: ) if you want to get them in less than a month delay :?

That's why I said "if price is not a problem". I'm not a merchant.

I'm off tomorrow for 2 weeks so I probably won't see him before the end of august, but I'll definitely will. Or, I might have time to come by him tomorrow morning before I left, and ask him.
I'll revert as soon as I'll get some usefull information.

PS: thanks for helping me chasing the seat ;)

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:43 am
by sbelcher

Thanks for the information about the heads and it would be great if you were able to find out a little more for me... The postage is not quite so much of a worry as i am in Ireland and not the US, so postage is within EU.

I am very jealous of the guy with the TT F1...

As you are going away for two weeks, would you like me to ask about the seat for you so yuo have some information ready for when you get back? One favour deserves another!


Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:28 am
by Gomi
Ireland is waaaaaay closer than US, that's a good point for shipping charges :-D

Yes please, feel free to enquire about the solo seat, particularly if it's a "cagiva era" decals one. I don't want a "guggiaro" ('85 models - double stripes logo) style one, it won't match my F1.

Did not have time to come by my mechanic this morning, maybe this afternoon. Sorry...

For the TT F1, I'm jealous too (of course). As this is a piece of history, and probably a great piece of his own memory too, I know (because I asked him) that it will almost never leave his workshop.
But each time I came by, I look at it, eyes plenty of love, maybe he'll change his mind someday :lol: :lol: I'll try to take a photo next time ;)

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:34 am
by Gomi
btw, I found this an another website, in Germany:

Jörg Siepmann vom 14.06.2007
Tel. 0208-390246, bitte auch auf AB sprechen, er ruft zurück!
[email protected]

Biete für 750 F1: 1 Rahmen Santamonica/Laguna Seca, neu, ohne Nummer EUR 1500,00; 1 Vollverkleidung mit Kiel Laguna Seca, neu EUR 990,00; für F1/85 1 orig. Höcker, neu, ohne Polster EUR 490,00; 1 Stahltank, gebr. , Lack gut, alter Schriftzug, mit Tanksiegel v. innen EUR 490,00; 1 Satz Kolben/Zylinder, gebraucht, guter Zustand für F1/Paso EUR 350,00; 1 Satz Räder 750 F1, neue goldfarbene Kunststoffbeschichtung, Lager noch nicht eingebaut, aber vorhanden EUR 380,00; MRA-Verkleidungsscheibe, flach, rauchfarben EUR 40,00; 1 Satz Bremsscheiben 280, schwimmend, für 4-Kolben-Zangen, für F1 etc, 500 km gelaufen EUR 440,00; Stahlschwinge F1, gebraucht, Lack muß neu EUR 160,00; für Laguna Seca Bremszange hinten, mit Halter, gebraucht EUR 65,00;
Außerdem 1 Motor Ducati 750 F1/86, sehr guter Zustand EUR 3300,00; 1 Satz Pleuel 750 Sport/89, EUR 160,00; 1 Schutzblech 750 Sport, silber EUR 50,00; 1 Bremsscheibe schwimmend, 260 mm, wie Montjuich etc. , 200 km gelaufen EUR 240,00

Don't know if you speak german, but this guy has a set of piston+cylinder for EUR 350 and a complete F1 motor for EUR 3.300... And I think that '86 engines, like mine, have small spark plugs holes...

Maybe it helps...

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:54 am
by Gomi
bump for news: his answer is no. from his mouth: "I know everybody looks at F1 heads, and I won't sell them because the day I'll need them I won't have them anymore."

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:57 am
by sbelcher

No worries, but thanks for trying it for me. If you dont ask the question, you will never learn the answer! I am still waiting to hear about the seat, will let you know...


Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:46 am
by Gomi
You're right Steve, it's always worth to try. But I'm quite disappointed as I didn't though he would be so reluctant to sell them...
Did you try the german ad?

Wish you good luck for your quest.
And thanks for the seat, that's really nice...