Oil filter

If you need technical information or help with your parallel twin Ducati GTL 350/500 or Sport Desmo 350/500 engine - post your FAQs, comments & questions here.
esa
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Oil filter

Post by esa » Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:52 am

There was a really nice list of oil filters for bigger Ducati´s on this website, but does anyone know codes for 500 paraller twin cartridge type oil filter?
Someone told here early type Honda CBR 900 filter would fit, but according to local Honda dealer all CBR`s have different kind of filter?

Also contact breaker point gaps seems to be very difficult to find (at least in Finland), would for example some other Ducati type´s parts be used?


Thank´s,
Esa
Esa

izaakb
Mariana
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:45 am

Re: Oil filter

Post by izaakb » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:39 am

A stash of NOS parallel oil filters has been found in Italy and I expect them to be available in the US soon.

There are no compatible filters for the parallels to my knowledge -- unfortunately.

As far as the breaker points, I think you might be able to fabricate a point surface by re-using the base parts and using a VW bug points kit (from the OLD bug, i.e. 1960s). The distributor on an old Bug is about the same diameter and the points uses the same kind of ribbon spring and contact surfaces.

Also, try using some ultra-fine sandpaper on the points surface -- that is the poor-mans way of doing it. 800-1000 grit Emory paper is the best and use water as a lubricant -- remove the water with alcohol or brake cleaner before you re-install them.
esa wrote:There was a really nice list of oil filters for bigger Ducati´s on this website, but does anyone know codes for 500 paraller twin cartridge type oil filter?
Someone told here early type Honda CBR 900 filter would fit, but according to local Honda dealer all CBR`s have different kind of filter?

Also contact breaker point gaps seems to be very difficult to find (at least in Finland), would for example some other Ducati type´s parts be used?


Thank´s,
Esa
1977 500GTL (restored)
1980 Darmah 900SS (being restored)
1986 Alazzurra 650SS
1986 Alazzurra 650SS (project renov)
1986 Elefant 650 (needs work..)
1995 900SS SP #591
1996 600SS
1998 900SS FE
2005 Monster S2R (on my third tank...)

esa
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Finland

Post by esa » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:55 pm

Classic Italian Bikes (http://home.zonnet.nl/gpgio1/) had NOS oil filters at least some times ago. I would have ordered them more if I knew the situation...
70/80`s Honda CB 750 oil filter looks quite promising, it is little bit shorter and the top side is different (the oil seal is below top surface of filter), but with suitable sealing fitted it might do the job?
I don`t know, so please don`t distroy your engines....

What about using some other bikes cb points together with their own fixing plate?
There must be bikes using at least guite similar douple points located in 90 degrees angle.
I ques it should be from four stroke (paraller?) twin with 180 degress crankshaft.
I`ll continue search when I have time....
Esa

noish
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Post by noish » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:53 pm

fram ch6009 buy at walmart
works fine in mine.

tim

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filter

Post by BevHevSteve » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:21 pm

Noish, you use a fram 6009 on a GTL ???? [not a bevel drive]
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noish
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Post by noish » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:51 pm

yeah, is that bad? I was looking for filters on this forum several months ago, somebody suggested the fram, and it fits fine.

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filter

Post by BevHevSteve » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:47 pm

perfect!

Can you possibly take some photos of an original along with the Fram, next oil change so I can see the 2 side by side so to speak?

Fits fine, or exactly the same? I would like to know because I actually have lots of folks asking for them........
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esa
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Finland

Post by esa » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:48 am

According to some filter table on net Fram ch6009 is beeing used in some Honda CB750 models?
I hope it is not the same Honda filter I mentioned before....
It looks quite same as original Ducati filter (top side is clearly different, anyway) and it can be assemblend on GTL, but the oil sealing on top side won´t touch the engine block, and most propably oil will not go trouhg the filter!
Esa

izaakb
Mariana
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Post by izaakb » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:53 am

Has anyone considered opening the used filter cartridge, modifying it to have a screw-type seal and changing the filter paper?

I will be posting pics of a prototype when I am finished.
1977 500GTL (restored)
1980 Darmah 900SS (being restored)
1986 Alazzurra 650SS
1986 Alazzurra 650SS (project renov)
1986 Elefant 650 (needs work..)
1995 900SS SP #591
1996 600SS
1998 900SS FE
2005 Monster S2R (on my third tank...)

izaakb
Mariana
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:45 am

Post by izaakb » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:50 am

I picked up a Fram CH6009 filter and I have photos with side by side, but nowhere to post them.

The Fram filter (56mm) is 4 mm shorter than the stock filter (59mm) and the indentation on the bottom where the intake bolt (?) head sits is on both sides of the filter. Both filters are 77mm diameter.

I can't see how this filter works at all. :( . it has a huge amount of area for bypass. In order for the oil to flow through the paper, it needs to seal against the bottom of the engine. I don't think it's a good substitute, unfortunately.

They run $4 at Pep Boys. The replacement OEM part is Honda 15410-426-010

izaak
1977 500GTL (restored)
1980 Darmah 900SS (being restored)
1986 Alazzurra 650SS
1986 Alazzurra 650SS (project renov)
1986 Elefant 650 (needs work..)
1995 900SS SP #591
1996 600SS
1998 900SS FE
2005 Monster S2R (on my third tank...)

esa
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Finland

Post by esa » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:18 pm

If I cant´t find any better solution I thouhgt I´ll make a fixing plate for that Honda filter by lathe.
Diameter about 77 mm, thickness should be the difference of the filters (4 mm?), in a middle a hole for the fixing bolt and the Honda filter sealig and a thinner area (thickness about 0.5mm) for that sealing.
Sealing against the filtter by O-ring (dia. about 50 - 55mm?) or just by suitable (sealing-) glue.
Difficult to explain, but very simple after all....
Esa

noish
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:50 pm
Location: San Diego

fram on my 500 GTL

Post by noish » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:08 am

I found the FRAM 6009 is smaller, but I think it still cranks down against the engine, no? There is the bolt with the pressure release valve that bolts the filter down to the engine. The oil flows through the holes in this bolt, through the filter, and into the reservoir around the filter, then out through the small hole on the postero-lateral surface of the reservoir into the crankcase. The spring mechanism in the reservoir is so if the filter is clogged, the oil can bypass the filter and go straight into the reservoir. When I crank the filter bolt down, the filter goes up snug and tight against the engine. It doesn't matter how tall or wide the filter is, as long as the oil flows through the bolt and out through the filter. I can't see how the filter doesn't crank up against the oil outflow -- seems to crank up pretty tight to me, and the gaskets on the filter seem to fit well with the bolt. I'll take a better look next time I change the filter just to make sure.

tim

izaakb
Mariana
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:45 am

Re: fram on my 500 GTL

Post by izaakb » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:30 am

You have the direction of the oil wrong, the bolt is actually the intake channel and the piston/spring at teh bottom is the bypass. The suction inside the filter increases the pressure on the piston and oil slips past it if the filter is clogged.

My concern is that on the stock filter, the top is flat and the grommet seals against the bolt's threads directly, sealing the filter and the intake.

The Honda filter does not provide this seal.
noish wrote:I found the FRAM 6009 is smaller, but I think it still cranks down against the engine, no? There is the bolt with the pressure release valve that bolts the filter down to the engine. The oil flows through the holes in this bolt, through the filter, and into the reservoir around the filter, then out through the small hole on the postero-lateral surface of the reservoir into the crankcase. The spring mechanism in the reservoir is so if the filter is clogged, the oil can bypass the filter and go straight into the reservoir. When I crank the filter bolt down, the filter goes up snug and tight against the engine. It doesn't matter how tall or wide the filter is, as long as the oil flows through the bolt and out through the filter. I can't see how the filter doesn't crank up against the oil outflow -- seems to crank up pretty tight to me, and the gaskets on the filter seem to fit well with the bolt. I'll take a better look next time I change the filter just to make sure.

tim
1977 500GTL (restored)
1980 Darmah 900SS (being restored)
1986 Alazzurra 650SS
1986 Alazzurra 650SS (project renov)
1986 Elefant 650 (needs work..)
1995 900SS SP #591
1996 600SS
1998 900SS FE
2005 Monster S2R (on my third tank...)

izaakb
Mariana
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:45 am

Post by izaakb » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:25 am

I have done some experimentation with the Honda filter as above and I've figured out it is bypassing oil. The top portion of the bolt has intake which is not covered by the Honda filter's top because it is indented.

The Honda filter is made to be installed in either direction, but the stock GTL filter has to be flat against the engine. Oil is passing over the indent and directly into the bolt -- bypassing the filter.

It is possibe the filter could be modified, I am working on that.
1977 500GTL (restored)
1980 Darmah 900SS (being restored)
1986 Alazzurra 650SS
1986 Alazzurra 650SS (project renov)
1986 Elefant 650 (needs work..)
1995 900SS SP #591
1996 600SS
1998 900SS FE
2005 Monster S2R (on my third tank...)

esa
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Finland

Post by esa » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:42 pm

Don´t bother modifying the filter, keep it as it is and make an adapter.
Oil change will be easier in a future.
Esa

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