Help! Newbie needs advice on starting Darmah with 40's

Ralph M · Post by **Ralph M** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:20 am

Firstly please excuse my ignorance but am completely new to all things Ducati!
Have just picked up a Darmah fitted with 40's. No chokes present and both carbs have ticklers - is this normal? My problem is twofold. Firstly even with a new battery fitted the motor doesn't turn over that readily and the wire from the solenoid gets extremely hot after only a few cranks of the engine. So hot that the rubber shroud over the terminal has started to melt!! Any thoughts on this problem??
This therefore only leaves me with a few attempts to fire the bike up and sadly I've only succeeded a few times - very frustrating. Any advice on how long to tickle or other starting tips??
On the couple of occaisions when I've succeeded the bike will idle after a few minutes warming up and rides like a dream!

Any advice very gratefully received before I pull all my hair out!!!!

Red N' Blu · Post by **Red N' Blu** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:06 pm

I THINK with the tickler you are suppose to "Purge" the fuel so it starts to seep out of the tickler.. Im not sure if that is correct, but it worked on the 250 Monza

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:05 pm

I dont actualy own a bike with 40s but a mate did years ago,the ticklers hold the float down to riase the fuel level in the bowl,you just hold them down till fuel dribles out a bit,dont pump them up and down.Like a lot of electric starters of that time they were not that strong,if it was me I would kick it when cold and use the button when hot,way less drag with hot oil,
I would also just stab at the button,holding them on creates a lot of heat=damage
there should be some more experianced replys soon.

Ralph M · Post by **Ralph M** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:42 am

Thanks for the response so far - should perhaps mention that no kickstart present so can only turn engine over with starter alone!

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:55 am

Well that make it a bit harder,what helped a lot on my Laverda was running a thick,approx 6mm welding cable with solidly crimped ends from the earth on the battery to the body mounting bolt of the starter motor.
There is also a mod done to my Pantah that involves fitting a relay,what I was told happens is originally most of the juice goes to spinning the starter motor not leaving enough to fire the plugs,after the relay was fitted it became a much better starter

mgh1955 · Post by **mgh1955** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:42 pm

Ralph,

Just a couple of things to make sure basics are correct.

What is amphour rating of battery?
SD’s originally came with a Yuasa 36 amp hour battery. Improvements in battery technology mean that you shouldn’t need a 36amp battery these days though. Wouldn’t try it with anything less than 30amp hour though; particularly if a previous owner has put in higher compression pistons.

Is the cable from the battery to the starter relay and the cable from the relay to the starter motor about 8mm in diameter (including sheath)?
If anything significantly less then starter motor is overloading the cable and still not getting enough juice to easily overcome compression.

Mick

baddean · Post by **baddean** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:42 pm

Hi Ralph,
The two best pieces of advice you got here would be the bigger battery cables (battery to starter and battery to ground) and making sure you have a powerful enough battery. If it is getting that hot I'd say that the battery is not of high enough amps, your cable ends are worn/frayed or not making good contact or all of the above. The battery cables are always too small on a Ducati even the new ones.
As for the ticklers, you will have to play with them to see what the bike likes best. My Norton wants me to flood it til the gas runs out. My '59 BMW R60 wants me to hold them for a count of 4 seconds. Any more than that and it won't start.
Tickle both starting with a 1 count and work your way up til you find what the bike likes.
Hope this helps.
Dean

Ralph M · Post by **Ralph M** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:15 pm

Thanks for the info guys!
The battery is a 30 amphour Varta. I purchased it new when I aquired the bike a few weeks ago and have used it in conjunction with an Optimate 4.
Yes the cables are a bigger diameter and seem well secured.
Should I try another battery or could there be a possible fault with the starter motor - worn brushes or dirty comm? Does the starter need to come out to check these and if so easy job??
Input so far much appreciated and keep it coming please - I'm determined to get some summer use out of the beast yet!!!!

Ralph

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:53 pm

Try piggybacking both batterys with jumper cables,at least that will tell you if the first battery isnt strong enogh to spin it fast,thats what it took to start my newly rebuilt and tight Laverda motor for the first couple of goes

mgh1955 · Post by **mgh1955** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:56 pm

Ralph,

personally I wouldn't try and put more current through existing setup at this point if it is overloading (overheating) existing cables. I use a 30 amp hour battery these days & it works fine. Engine fires on first stab of button.

In so far as you have got engine to fire and it idles after warm up then I don't think your problem is with engine mechanicals. Does it idle smoothly at around 1,200 rpm with a crisp even feeling blat blat from both pipes? Got to use your ears and hands on this diagnostic!

In so far as the starter motor does turn, albeit not strongly, then either there is some 'binding' somewhere in the starter assembly or maybe the 'brushes' are failing or sticking.

I'd try spinning over motor with the plugs out (& engine electrics off so you don't burn out coils). If it seems to still struggle allowing for some minor compression resistance or if it varies in speed then time to remove starter motor and examine bearings (binding) &/or brushes (worn/sticking)

Ducati got it right with the size of the SD starter motor (but not the oem sprag clutch) so it is capable of safely spining over an unpluggged motor continuously for 10-15 seconds.

Mick

Ralph M · Post by **Ralph M** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:11 pm

Just a quick update, it would seem I've got a sick starter motor. Got it off the bike and took it to a specialist who reckons the bearings are worn.
Andrew @ Mdina is looking into the availability of them for me - really hope they are off the shelf items and I don't have to go the route of having them made.
Anyone out there had to source these before??

Ralph M · Post by **Ralph M** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:56 am

Just an update for you guys! I had the starter reconditioned with new bearing and brushes and new bearings made for the casings as the starter shaft was a tad under sized. Reassembled the starter and rechecked the wiring - cleaned all terminals and resecured with copperease.
Flooded both carbs and dabbed the button - started first time no problem and has continued to do so - done about 100 miles in total since.
Thanks for all your help - much appreciated. Just got to fix the countershaft oil leak that's now sprung up!! I see there are some threads concerning this so best I grab a beer and do some homework!!!

Bye 4 now
Ralph

tilly · Post by **tilly** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:00 am

[quote="Ralph M"]Thanks for the response so far - should perhaps mention that no kickstart present so can only turn engine over with starter alone! :([/quote]on a darmaha there should be a kick start,as for starting pump the ticklers until fuel dribles out of the bottom of the carbs,then a couple of twist of the throtle and away you go.

Steve Foster · Post by **Steve Foster** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:41 am

Tilly - the early Darmahs had a kickstart but from engine number 903762 (1979?) the entire kickstart assembly was removed and the alternator cover plugged where the kickstart shaft emerged.
Steve.