750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post pictures of your twin cylinder Bevel Drive Ducati (pre-1985) along with a description here.
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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:44 pm

BevHevSteve wrote:Thanks for posting all the pix - keep it up!

one of my case saver kits will help keep the chain from grinding into your case (typical things for all bevel twins actually)

A tip for making the cases look less like there has been grinding etc is to use a very course sand and sand plast the aluminum where it was ground or wire wheeled. With patience you can hid that pretty well from glances... You will always see it of course, but the casual observer may not notice.
Thanks Steve,

I've got a nice stash of black Delrin for making all manner of stuff. Works great for sidestand extender pads, primary chain replacement rub blocks, etc. I'll just home-roll something.

Plan is to take all the aluminum stuff out here: http://www.vaporblastcanada.com

He's got vapor of course, as well as soda & walnut and a large size ultra-sonic cleaner. Will do a little experimenting to see what results I get and hopefully the weld repairs will be inconspicuous. More parts detail shots coming.

The Crank is heading out to Guy Martin in Quebec next week for overhaul / modification.

GD

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:02 am

Looks like except for the kick-starter shaft splines, the gearbox is in pretty good shape. Engagement dogs show only a little wear and no chipping. no corrosion damage or tooth galling.

Layshaft 5th gear is , oddly, a quite tight on the shaft when you withdraw it from the shaft across the adjacent splines, though spins nicely on the shaft where there looks to be a little wear on the spline top wear surface. Will be inquiring with learned sages about what might be necessary to do with this. I see that grinding some lube access notches in the gear is one approach to improving:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =960%2C642

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[img]hhttps://i.postimg.cc/q7FBByz4/shift-drum.jpg[/img]

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Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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geodoc
750 GT
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:02 pm

Clutch and primary looks pretty good over all.

Considerable notching on the hub. At $100 for a new steel replacement from HDESA, no reason to try to dress them out. The small bit of notching on the basket ears can be filed out.

The steel plates have considerable wear on the drive tabs so will be replaced.

Friction plates don't look too bad though wondering about alternative friction plates like the Kevlar ones from Gowanloch in Australia:

http://ducati-gowanloch.com/catalog/bev ... -3022.html

I've sent him in email to ask if they allow you to use lighter clutch springs and get the notorious clutch pull effort down a bit w/o having to go with the extended actuator arm or the hydraulic rig from here:

http://fezone.com/mms/

Considering cutting down the flywheel to lighten a bit and perhaps let it rev a little easier and (if similar Guzzi practice translates) make it shift a little smoother.

Clutch push rod long items are corrosion pitted, but serviceable. Small bits and balls will be replaced with new.


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Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:17 pm

The project is coming along. The cases, heads & barrels are bead blaster & cleaned. Engine hardware is at the plater for electroless nickel and a little black oxide (head nuts). Timing & clutch covers at the the polisher.

Crank / rods is at Guy Martin's in Montreal for overhaul / modification.:

http://www.mbpducati.ca/index.htm?guyma ... ~mainFrame

Various parts have shown up and more to come.
Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:58 am

The engine is crated / packed up and on the way to Guy in Montreal:

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Now time to tear down the rolling chassis. No real surprises until taking the rear wheel apart. Looks like more damage from the pitched chain incident that broke the R.H. engine case. The sprocket carrier is toast - pieces broken out of the bolt hole areas in the casting as well as big cracks from the same. It could be welded up and re-machined, but hope is to find another (see I just missed one on UK eBay ............ damn!).

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Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:56 pm

Sprocket carrier update.

Came across a sprocket carrier for sale while cruising various parts sites. It's listed as for 750 & 850 drum brake models. Looking at the bosses in the casting where the sprocket bolts go through, it looks to be a better design with more material around the bosses and no sharp radii as on the ones that are shown cracked above. Wonder if this is an 860 part that was improved because of casting failures on the earlier 750's?

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Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:29 pm

More tear-down

frame is completely stripped right down to the lock. Will go this week for garnet blasting with a head guard installed. Found out the hard way that if it gets dropped on the steering head and bent, it's difficult to impossible to straighten it. After blasting, I'll take it and the swing arm to friend Paul Brodie's shop to check its straightness on his tricky frame jug.

http://flashbackfab.com/

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Center stand is bent and that side's foot is worn down. Will be weld built up and ground flat and bent leg straightened.

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Swing arm has some gouges in it that will be filled with JB Weld and smoothed out. JBW is good up to 650F so it's finfe for the powder coating process. Rear fender is a bit beat up and will be replaced most likely with a generic item from Wolfgang in Nakusp. Seems a shame to paint a good INOX front fender, but that's the plan for the fenders at the moment.

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Various bits will be going to electroless nickel plating, re-chroming or aluminum polisher. Don't do aluminum polishing any more - too filthy and not nearly as nice a job as Green's Wheel Shop in Richmond BC.

Various and sundry bits to contemplate. Gages going to Oliver in White Rock BC for refurb. Tried to press out the steering stem from the lower triple clamp, but heated to 350F and at 20 tones, it didn't budge. Have to think about that one, Screwed in? Seems unlikely. The threaded ends on the chain adjuster cylinders didn't budge when heated and using jam nuts to get out for plating. Hate to have to drill them out. Maybe more heat and Aero Kroil.

Well off to go look at a 1927 Grindlay Peerless that a guy wants to have restored. Job would be split between me & local Guzzi "Slicer" single owner Alan. It's like this one:

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Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:11 pm

The front wheel came apart fairly easily, the rear one, not so much ............. well, OK it came apart pretty easily cutting the spokes in half with bolt cutters. Meh, they are both getting new spokes anyway.

A "new" Boranni front rim will replace the shoulderless aluminum one that was installed sometime in the past, probably when it had its front-end collision that bent the forks. Rear rim might be salvageable - much corrosion, tire iron dents and a minor flat spot. Green's Wheel Shop has worked miracles before so maybe ............... A new one is $200 US + shipping. If refurbing the old one approaches that, then I'll make that 2 new rims.

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Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blacklightning
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by Blacklightning » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:08 am

Really enjoying your photo story on the rebuild here in the UK, and learning whilst I am at it. I finished a 900 Replica this summer (project management really, I don't have the skills that you do) but am recognising lots of similar parts and similar issues (such as the problems with the rear hub).

I think, as Steve says, most Bevels chains chew the cases...mine has....fingers crossed that I keep it off the swingarm (though I notice Steve does a kit for that too).

Please keep posting, very interesting indeed. :-D :-D :-D :-D

I'd say best of luck...but you don't need it as so obviously know exactly what you are up to...

Regards from London

Stuart

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:01 am

Blacklightning wrote:Really enjoying your photo story on the rebuild here in the UK, and learning whilst I am at it. I finished a 900 Replica this summer (project management really, I don't have the skills that you do) but am recognising lots of similar parts and similar issues (such as the problems with the rear hub).

I think, as Steve says, most Bevels chains chew the cases...mine has....fingers crossed that I keep it off the swingarm (though I notice Steve does a kit for that too).

Please keep posting, very interesting indeed. :-D :-D :-D :-D

I'd say best of luck...but you don't need it as so obviously know exactly what you are up to...

Regards from London

Stuart
Heh Stuart,

Yeah, that's the thing with basket cases, you just never know what you're up against until you get it all torn down and put an eyeball of every little bit. Fortunately, it's getting done in the age of the Internet where you can source parts with a bit of determined Googling. Can you imaging what finding (say) a serviceable replacement sprocket carrier would have involved just using Owner's Club newsletters, etc. and the mail / phone?

Before I got this project I was pretty much strictly a Guzzi guy. I remember a motorcycling friend also in the aviation biz telling me "you think airplane parts are expensive? wait until you start buying Ducati bevel drive parts!". Not far off on that. Still, at least you can get most of the stuff. For the 1930 Grindlay - Peerless I'm helping a friend finish the restoration on? HA!
Get to know the local sources for investment casting, foundry work and 1-off gear fabrication. Lucky, there are friends here that are afflicted with old bike restoration disease and already have these outfits identified.

GD
The Dominion of Canada

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this is actually the old version, the new version has some crossed hockey sticks on the shield somewhere.

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:27 pm

Picked up the frame, swing arm, footpeg brackets, center stand, etc. from garnet blasting. wheel hub and rear Boranni rim dropped of at Green's for polishing and repair of various tire iron induced gouges. The shoulderless rim that as formerly on the front has been cleaned and bead blasted and is now on Craigslist.

Stopped by the powder coater to ask about the use of JB Weld to fill gouges and divots in the frame, etc. He didn't know, but suggested a product called "ready metal" available at the local parts store that they have used with no ill effect. Guess my family size JB Weld will just get used to repair the seat pan since it's only bonding additional metal and will not be in direct contact with the powder coating after the repairs on it are done.

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Ray O'Donohue
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by Ray O'Donohue » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:02 am

I'd just like to offer an opinion/warning re glass bead blasting of parts such as engine cases or heads. One can never clean all the glass bead residue from these parts,and you may then have an engine failure,or you might get away with it. I have no experience with the other blasting mediums .The acid bath cleaning or ceramic tumbler process may be the best choice.

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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by BevHevSteve » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:11 am

When I owned my hot rod / restoration shop, I regularly would media blast frame and chassis parts then take to my powder coat guy to throw on whatever he was using. I would then sand everything down so the powder coating would end up as a filler of sorts. After doing any repairs of course. Then if there were still areas that were not smooth enough for what we were trying to accomplish, I'd use JB Weld to fill. Then file / sand as required and take back to the powder coater.
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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:36 am

Ray O'Donohue wrote:I'd just like to offer an opinion/warning re glass bead blasting of parts such as engine cases or heads. One can never clean all the glass bead residue from these parts,and you may then have an engine failure,or you might get away with it. I have no experience with the other blasting mediums .The acid bath cleaning or ceramic tumbler process may be the best choice.
Heh Ray,

I'm pretty paranoid too about residual glass bead in engine cases, heads, etc. Some parts are worse than others for being able to clean them afterwards with confidence that it's all been cleaned out. With the 750 Bevel cases, I would have used vapor blasting rather than doing them myself with glass bead except that an ultra sonic cleaner just became available locally that is large enough to fit engine cases, heads, etc. and I like the less shiny glass bead finish (I use new #6 to avoid the rough, dull finish that well used glass bead leaves).

I just did an overhaul on a Norton Commando top end and would probably not have glass beaded the head on that w/o being able to ultra sonic clean - too many nooks and crannies. I ended up getting it vapor blasted - this customer really liked the shiny finish and the process is residue-free:

http://www.vaporblastcanada.com/Photos.html

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These are not of the Bevel of course, but the 32mm dellortos that were on it were in similar condition and came out equally transformed.

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geodoc
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Re: 750GT Rolling Basket Challange

Post by geodoc » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:47 am

BevHevSteve wrote:When I owned my hot rod / restoration shop, I regularly would media blast frame and chassis parts then take to my powder coat guy to throw on whatever he was using. I would then sand everything down so the powder coating would end up as a filler of sorts. After doing any repairs of course. Then if there were still areas that were not smooth enough for what we were trying to accomplish, I'd use JB Weld to fill. Then file / sand as required and take back to the powder coater.
You had OK luck with powder coat directly over JB Weld? I'd heard this from others, but then the powder coating guy cautioned me off. I wonder if it depends on what color is being laid on for being able to detect it. A lot of people on hot rod / restoration sites seem to like "Hi-Temp Lab Metal"
Last edited by geodoc on Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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