Another pick up issue...

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mizike77
860 GT / GTS
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:37 am

Another pick up issue...

Post by mizike77 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:08 pm

So I have a thread going in the carb section that has now turned into a pick up wiring topic. SoI am posting this in the proper forum. I have ordered the new wire aqnd shrink wrap from steve. Now the question is hot to attatch at the pick up. I have removed all the old wrap and found that the insulation has fallen apart all the way down to the pick ups themselves. I was thinking of slipping some shrink wrap all the way down against the the pick up then putting some epoxy around it to hold the base better. I have read in a recent post that someone used JB weld because of its heat resistance. Maybe I should try that instead? I would like to do all this without removing the pick ups from the plate. I have taken photos, mostly poor photos for your viewing pleasure. http://picasaweb.google.com/mizike77/Da ... ionPickUps#

wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Post by wdietz186 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:25 pm

When you get the new wire slip the heat shrink on the new wire before you solder to the lead from the pickup.Then slip it down over the splice and down to the pickup.Before you heat it to make it shrink position the wires with the new wire in the case grommet so nothing gets pulled and the wires are separated.Shrinking in position will keep things from taking a dump later.A blob of JB weld where the wires come out of the pickup wouldn't hurt either.Be sure to clean everything with some contact cleaner before you solder the wires as oil will get into the strands and compromise the joint and the pickups need to be oil free for the epoxy to stick.

Elliot
Cucciolo - the Lil Pup
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:19 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Elliot » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:21 pm

Just be aware that the epoxy JB Weld is almost like a plastic steel.
I have used it because it is temp, oil, and electrical resistant and seals the back of the pick up where the wires exit. This is a reasonably permanent repair and maybe difficult to remove later if the pick ups ever need servicing again.
Just letting you know so that you can make an informed decision.
Good luck.
Owner of two 78 Dramahs as I can't afford a 900SS or a Greenframe!

mizike77
860 GT / GTS
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:37 am

Post by mizike77 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:21 am

Photos of the repair. Soldered onto the old wires, slid the shrinkwrap up against the pickups to cover all exposed copper. Then JB welded the aqrea where the wire exits the pick up. It looks to be pretty tight. Hope this was the issue.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mizike77/PickupRepair#

mizike77
860 GT / GTS
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:37 am

Post by mizike77 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:08 am

Well that didnt cure the problem. I t idles better now and seems to run much better off the bottom,first 1/4 turn or so but still breaks up higher in the RPMs...after 5k or so.

MartinMille BANNED
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Post by MartinMille BANNED » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:37 pm

Mike
What have you done so far?

You have done the wire mod and this would have been my 1st job as well
The carbs are in tune with no air leaks?

Coils
Ignitor box's
Pick up coil inside the engine
Spark plug
These are really the only things that can make your engine miss at 5k

mizike77
860 GT / GTS
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:37 am

Post by mizike77 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:30 pm

Martin Mille / SSD wrote:Mike
What have you done so far?

You have done the wire mod and this would have been my 1st job as well
The carbs are in tune with no air leaks?

Coils
Ignitor box's
Pick up coil inside the engine
Spark plug
These are really the only things that can make your engine miss at 5k
Well Martin, the wire mod is done.We synched the carbs before the wire issue arose, and I have since taken them apart a few times so im sure they need the mercury sticks again. I have sprayed carb cleaner on the new intake blocks with no effect on engine rpm.Spark plugs are new. Ignitor boxes? Havnt tested them but I have spark on both cyls.Same goes for the coils. What do mean by pick up coil inside the engine? The pick ups themselves? They look OK. I spent some time w2ith them while I was repairing the wire. What other tests can I do?

MartinMille BANNED
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Post by MartinMille BANNED » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:39 pm

Mike
Most electrical parts if they were to have a break down at 5k will quite happily work at a lower RPM , Do you know which cyl is breaking down?
You may want to borrow a coil and igniter box , I dont think there is any test you can do on the pick-ups
Do have another bike you can swap parts from ?

also forgot to add that the HT lead can also give you the break down issue

Lumpy
SD900 Darmah
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:49 am

5k break down

Post by Lumpy » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:33 am

As Martin says it`s pretty imprtant to isolate which cylinder is breaking down. From there you have a spare set of every thing and you can swap them over to check whats working and whats not. Still possible you don`t have proper advance so swapping the Bosch ingintion boxes under the tank might be the next place I would go. Before you do that however, a quick easy check is to make sure you have`nt got spark jumping to earth before it gets to the plugs. This can be easily checked in dim or no light conditions and is most apparent on cool or moist nights. Be sure to check around the coils, following the lead to the plug, pay close attention to the plug cap that it`s not jumping to the head. I had an old XT500 Yammy that had a high rev break down and the spark was jumping from the coil to the frame under the tank.
Spark plugs can also be good at giving clues. Take her for a short run at 5 grand but it`s important to shut off the engine with the key while in that rev range and check the plugs.
High tension leads I was told have to be the old style wire type. I can`t confirm this personally but I was told to avoid silicon leads.
Are you sure your getting a good 12V+ at the coils? Don`t forget the Bosch system needs a 12V input to the coils. Jap bikes I`ve owned can play silly buggers, breaking down at higher RPM when the battery is not at it`s best. However I`m yet to experience that on the Duc.
If by chance you discover the break down is in both cylinders may be worth trying moving the clip on the needle in the carbs. The colour of your plugs should give something away there as to making it leaner or richer.
I`m guessing air filters, spark plugs and such are in fine fettle.
Hope this helps

wdietz186
Cagiva Alazzura
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Post by wdietz186 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:57 am

Mike, I would second the opinion that the Bosch ign. boxes are the next step.If you can determine which cyl. is misfiring swap the boxes and see if the miss goes to the other cyl. The boxes are very reliable but I had one bad on a friends 78 Darmah I worked on earlier this year.If you still have the original coils they are also suspect.

mizike77
860 GT / GTS
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:37 am

Post by mizike77 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:58 am

When you guys say "swap the boxes", do mean simply swap the large inducer harness plugs from one side to the other?

Lumpy
SD900 Darmah
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:49 am

pick ups

Post by Lumpy » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:02 pm

Thats pretty much the size of it. I`m away from mine at present and it`s been a while since my saga but from memory there are just the 2 big connectors that need to be swapped over, but I have a nagging thought there was another wire as well. Trace out your wire`s because it`s most important the coil wires are swapped. It was pretty straight forward as I recall. You probably don`t need me to tell you the nastiness that will come from having your spark timing swapped from pot to pot.........ask me how I know..........
Thing is this won`t tell you squat if you have`nt isolated the problem to one pot. I`m a little unclear as to if the problem is only at higher RPM or if you can pick up on it at idle as well.
Has there been anything altered on the bike or did the problem just appear one day?
If you can only pick up on it at higher RPM do the plug test. Short run at 5 grand key off, clutch in, pull plugs and compare. One will be wet and ugly if it`s not going.
Quick easy check at idle is to pull the plug leads off individually. If the bike dies when you pull one off, but runs with little difference when you pull the other, the one with little difference is the lazy one.
It`s kinda hard without knowing the full story or what you`ve checked, but by what you`ve said I`d lean to Bosch advance units (though I`ve never seen one go I understand they can fail) or the coils . Both are easy to swap, just suss your wiring and away you go.

mizike77
860 GT / GTS
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:37 am

Post by mizike77 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:24 am

Havnt had much time with the Darmah this week. Just picked up a 71 H1 500 that I am fooling around with. But I did manage to pull the plugs and take a quick look. The rear cyclinder looks like it is burning good, if maybe a bit lean. The front looks new but is wet and dark. .....

Peter Mille
750 SS Greenframe - the holy grail
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:12 am
Location: The Netherlands, Europe.

Post by Peter Mille » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:22 am

Have fun with your Triple!
Do you know: www.kawasakitriplesworldwide.com ?

I have a '73 Kawa 750 H2 besides my Mille MHR, both great, period bikes!

rwhc80
750 GT
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:19 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by rwhc80 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:48 am

Mike,
Can you give a better description of breaks up at 5K IE: missfires, backfires or just won't rev past 5K ? I would suggest checking your Ballast resistors as well, as these can cause problems. You can bypass these temporarily and check the running for any difference. You could also try closing your plug gap as a test. This may also highlight an ignition problem if the bike runs better with a smaller gap.

Cheers
Rick
I have desmo disease, I just hope they never find a cure !!!

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