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Mille S2 production number
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:25 pm
I just saw the fotogallary of the Mille's and Brian D. Norrie
Calgary, Alberta, Canada wrote that he owns a Mille S2 number 18. I wonder how
you can identify the production number of this type of bike. My bike has framenumber ZDM1000S2100059DGM514290M.
Ruud, Haarlem (i Paesi Bassi)
Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:48 pm
I believe your Mille S2 is # 59.
ZDM1000S2 is the identification of the bike,
100059 is the actualy frame#. ( the "1" in front means nothing...!)
DGM51429OM is some kind of Italian Rijksdienst voor het wegverkeer number!
Greetings from Harkstede, Peter.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:13 pm
G'day Peter and Ruud,
Peter, you are correct about the number for that bike. The S2 Mille production used an identical frame as the MHR Mille production but with a short run of ony 171 bikes from memory. Each frame of the S2 Mille run was marked with ZDM1000 S2 to distinguish from the R of the MHR run.
So the S2 Mille is a VERY small production run which makes them special.
Now, the fun part!!!
I own an S2 Mille (as well as an MHR Mille) but its numbers are different.
Brian had 2 S2 Milles but one was what we call a "FrankenDuc" having a frame number from the MHR Mille run.
Some of us here in Oz own S2 Milles of both types and we have a list of known examples. They are not MHR Milles converted to S2 but are S2 in their own right. I know because I have a "FrankenDuc". Only about 5 have been identified by us so far.
AND, just to confuse things, we have found 2 types of "FrankenDucs".
I am away from home so can't access my files to get contacts of the other owners or the exact details but it goes something like this.
There are S2 Mille with MHR numbers which were built like that at the factory plus some here in Oz that were assembled (we believe) from parts from the factory and plated as S2 Mille with an Italspares plate on the frame. Don't quote me as I am going from memory on this.
So short and sweet, you have an original S2 Mille number 59 from the short production run (finished when Cagiva flexed its muscles). It is rare considering only 171 were made "officially" but remember there lurks somewhere out there in the darkness, the dreaded and even rarer "FrankenDuc"! :-) :-)
Email me direct if you want more info or help.
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:58 am
What exactely is a "FrankenDuc" ?
S2 Mille FrankenDuc
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:18 am
Sorry for the delay in replying as I work away a lot.
The FrankenDuc is what we call an S2 Mille that is a genuine S2 Mille as far as cosmetics/registration goes but has an MHR numbered frame.
The 171 ZDM1000S2 numbered frames of the genuine batch are identical in every respect to the MHR frames which carried a ZDM1000R prefix. The engines came from the same production run but are numbered later in the sequence (from around the 700 mark from memory) for the S2 run.
These 1000R MHR-framed S2 Milles are the FrankenDucs ie. the evil creations of the genuine S2s just like Frankenstein was an evil creation of a human, catch my drift?
Strangely, there is another identical FrankenDuc living only 2 streets away from me here in North Queensland and is one of the five known.
There are other different FrankenDucs with slightly different beginnings that exist also but here in Australia only.
Hope this explains things.
If you want to mail me direct, feel free.
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:19 am
OK, so you saying there are Mille S2 with frame #'s ZDM1000R?
Never heard about that, thought there were only about 170 Mille S2's, so maybe there are more with MHR frame's?
I know it was a difficult time around 1985 in Bolonga........!!!
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:54 pm
In one word, YES!
They are very few and far between but are S2 Milles, built as such, not just tarted up from an MHRMille someone had.
Unfortunately, the S2 Mille is sought after for its engine and bits for specials etc. as people don't like the stying etc. and see it as a donor bike only so is a dying species.
Sorry again for the big delay in replying.
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:37 pm
Thanks, never to old to learn!
I recently did find out that the last Mille MHR's were fitted with Oscam 3 spoke design wheels, instead of the 5 spoke design, altough the official books ( Ian Falloon!!!) only mention the 5 spoke Oscam wheels....!!
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:54 pm
Hello Radecal and Peter,
Thanks for the answers
I think we are all dying species but until then I don't have the intention to chop my bike and leave it the way it is. Actually I don't dislike the looks, just think its a pretty thing with exposed and round cases. On a trip from Haarlem to Bologna for a factory-visit with my wife as passenger she told me that life was not a problem at all on the buddy-seat cornering along throug the Alpes and that was an other reason why I choose for the Mille S2.
There is one other thing that is strange about my bike. Both the carb's are left-bored for the adjustment screws (S) Sinister=Left.
And the choke-lever is on the carburettor itself and not with a bowden-cable. Are the other S2's fitted in the same way??
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:17 am
If anyone is still following this thread, to which I have found very interesting, maybe someone can throw some light on my 900MHR issue, to which I am now really confused.
Frame number DM900R1 * 906382 * DGM51147OM
I was told when I bought this from new many years ago, 1984, that this was an S2 engine (I assume S2 means E. Starter!!!!). I take it that this bike has an MHR frame. Was there any such animal as a S2 frame for the 900 ?
Doesn’t much really matter if there isn’t an answer, the main thing is that I still enjoy riding it and having fun.
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:28 pm
Steved, what is your engine number?
The "R"in DGM900R1 means that it's a Replica chassis.
I think your bike is #6382 MHR 900
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:37 pm
I'm sure your Mille S2 was original a HdB bike, I saw it standing new in his "showroom" in Zoutkamp, back in 1984-1985.
He never sold the bike, but he always used his new showroom models as parts suppliers for customers.
He must have used the original carburators for other purposes.
He sold the bike to a dealer in your neighbourhood, and than you bought it!
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:33 pm
Thanks for the quick responce.
The engine number is 909203 DM860
I originally bought this bike in Germany, but I think that the shop imported it from Holland.
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:20 am
It seems to me that your observation about the HdeB-bike must be right because at the time I became interested in buying a mille (March 1987) there still was a new one in Holland available (Joop Budgen in Giessenburg aranged it for me) It must have been a so-called 'Shop-Daughter' the one nobody wanted to buy
. If you are interested in the article about the end of the beavelheads "Aus und vorbei: Ducati mit Konigswelle" I could send you a copy of it. That article made me restless
And one thing about the carbs: both bored 'sinistre' is an advantage because the access is possible with the fairing left in its position!
Next time I see an Mille S2 I will look for differences
Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:19 am
@Ruud, it's a small (bevel) world after all....!!!
@Steve, I don't see anything S2 regarding your bike, I think it's one of the last original MHR 900's.
Buy: Ducati Twins, restoration guide, bevel drive 1971-1985, by Ian Falloon, Motor Books International, ISBN 0-7603-0490-4. year: 1998.
It explains a lot!
Question for you: we will be spending our annual holiday in Watchet, Sommerset, the next two weeks.
Can you suggest a (bevel) Ducati place/store/workshop, worth a visit in the South West of England?